Ableton Live: Why do certain buttons only TOGGLE?

[Max Oepen]

Certain buttons, such as the "arm track" and "solo"-buttons, are toggle-only when assigned to MIDI. The "speaker-on/off" button above it on the other hand CAN be sent specific "ON" or "OFF" states (using a CC-message with for eg: 00="OFF" or 7F="ON").

Why is this not available on all buttons?

The fact that I cannot send specific "ON" or "OFF" messages to the "arm track" buttons for examples is a major constriction in a live-performance setup where I need to be able to remotely record-enable/disable MIDI-tracks.

Max.

[8O]

You can change it on your midi controller usually - see here: http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?t=98888

[chapelier fou]

Are you totally sure? I am thinking of the OVR button, which doesn't seems to send Midi when opening the set.

[Max Oepen]

Are you totally sure?

yep, totally sure. Arm-buttons (and several others) are toggle-only.

Would like to hear from the developers why they did not offer CC-range control for all buttons.
Makes no sense to me why they couldn't. I'm assuming they didn't expect people to need this precise midi-control on those buttons. Well, I do.

You can change it on your midi controller usually - see here: http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?t=98888

Thanks, but unfortunately that post does not pertain to this problem. This is an Ableton-specific problem

Max.

[8O]

From my linked post I could get the arm and other buttons in Live to behave as on/off and not toggle-mode. I thought that's what you're trying to achieve?

[dom]

Certain buttons, such as the "arm track" and "solo"-buttons, are toggle-only when assigned to MIDI. The "speaker-on/off" button above it on the other hand CAN be sent specific "ON" or "OFF" states (using a CC-message with for eg: 00="OFF" or 7F="ON").

Why is this not available on all buttons?

Internally those are different parameters/controls: the "speaker on" button belongs to the parameters that can be automated, the solo and record arm buttons can't. Nothing you can do about this, yet, besides the controller workaround to toggle with every keypress as 8O wrote - but i know this is not exactly what you're asking for, sorry.

Best,
Dom

[Max Oepen]

80:
I reread your linked post. I still don't see how you were able to achieve this with specifically the arm-button.
Are you sure that it is not toggling?
I was not aware of controller numbers past 127, I don't know yet how to send CC# 147 / 148. Are you sure those are the actual CC numbers that are sent?


dom:

"Internally those are different parameters/controls: the "speaker on" button belongs to the parameters that can be automated, the solo and record arm buttons can't"?

So this is a routing issue? I might need some help understanding how any button "belongs" to any parameters. It is my understanding that any button that has an "on"- and "off"-state could be assigned a midi-range (yes, "internally"), just like it was done with so many of the other buttons.
Please elaborate.

Thanks,

Max.

[8O]

80:
I was not aware of controller numbers past 127, I don't know yet how to send CC# 147 / 148. Are you sure those are the actual CC numbers that are sent?
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something.

That's what worked for my UC-33e controller. Exactly what kind of midi controller are you using? Maybe we can find a workaround...

[Max Oepen]

Thanks for the quick reply.

Exactly what kind of midi controller are you using? Maybe we can find a workaround...

I'm using a total of five controllers, but here's the thing:
They're all routed through Midi Translator. So that actually gives me more options, in fact any option I could think of, including going "under the hood" of applications with WM_Messages, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to do that.
Anyways, as far as the MIDI-message that comes into Ableton Live is concerned, I can make that look any which way I want, so if it is indeed possible to use a certain controller number, as your post suggested, I would like to see the actual exact string of hex values.

Thanks,
Max.

[dom]

So this is a routing issue? I might need some help understanding how any button "belongs" to any parameters. It is my understanding that any button that has an "on"- and "off"-state could be assigned a midi-range (yes, "internally"), just like it was done with so many of the other buttons.
Please elaborate.

Thanks,

Max.

No, only parameters/buttons that can be automated in Live can be assigned to a midi range, buttons that you can't automate in Live can be used for midi learn, but you can't assign a range - they only toggle.

Best,
Dom

[zuchtfisch]

I'm hassling around the same problem here. I wanted my BCR2000 to display the arm-state of some of my (midi) tracks that are inside a group, so i don't have to look on the screen as well. The on/off mode of a button with it's LED would be just fine for this. But Live doesn't support this mode for the arm buttons. For most other buttons yes, so there's also feedback to the controllers for those (e.g. if you switch them off with the mouse or some automation the LED will go off and the value in the controller change) - but again, not for the arm buttons. The only way to come close is to set the controller button to On/Off mode but sending 127 for both on and off values. But as soon as you change the arm state with the mouse your LED is out of Phase with the actual arm state as there will be no feedback (can also happen when you load the set of course).
What i don't get, is that it is actually possible to map those arm buttons to a controller with proper feedback, just not in the parameter mapping window: On the new Akai APC40 you have just this, eight tracks with all the controlls INCLUDING the arm buttons with apropriately coloured LEDs to represent the actual state of the parameters...
But they go for over 400.-€ and we already have the BCR2000s, so give us the control to do what we need...