Are you really making Great music?

Nicknackerski · Post by **Nicknackerski** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:06 pm

I was wondering are there any people here Starting and finishing whole tracks in Ableton Live?

I'm Definitely suffering from Writers block and am struggling to decide what is the Culprit....Is it me? Do i need to purchase yet more Gear? Should i sell everything and do something else?

I usually have a great song which i've created/jammed out with an acoustic guitar and put together over a few days.

I decide how i want it to sound (i.e listened to a massive attack tune earlier in the day at work, loved a particular use of arrangement, heard a boards of canada tune loved the Used of Sampled Synths and soundscapes etc.....)

So i move on to Logic or Ableton:
I create a track over the period of an hour, but the trouble i've been through fighting the computer to create it means ive listened to the song for an hour as well and am now sick to death of it.
It is usually saved and archived probably never to be opened again.

Why is this? It sounded Great on Acoustic guitar and still does the day after?
Also, i still feel the song could be good if i could only get it to sound like it does in my thoughts

Well, i was wondering if anybody else on here has had these problems and would like to share their experiences in over coming this.

What controllers do you use?

What Software plugins do you use?

And most importantly where is you music used?
Dj-ing,
Live gigs alongside guitars Drums etc...
Tv Music, Scoring etc.

Please be honest and put my mind at rest, if you've had commercial success with an ableton track please shout up! If

Steve.

mdk · Post by **mdk** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:10 pm

if it sounds good on the guitar why not keep it on the guitar?

if you translate it to something else and you end up sick of it then work with it another way, dont fight the idea by trying to convert it because you heard someone else do something you liked.

record the guitar and work from there.

j2j · Post by **j2j** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:19 pm

What is great music?

I have a complete track in my sig btw... click on dreaminc2.mp3

posssu · Post by **posssu** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:19 pm

Hi!

I write film music (=orchestral, pop, rock, indie, etc) and I do everything in Live.

I think a bigger issue with your recording is your microphone(s) and their positions. Read about micing techniques with acoustic guitar and how to place them. If you record with a bad mic or place them to funny places, there's no way you can fix your track in any software. Or at least change drastically the way it sounds.

In recording acoustic guitar (especially if it's not going to be blended to some big pop mix), the recording and mics themselves are the most important part to get a good sound.

So if you want to buy new gear, maybe you could invest in a pair of very good mics and read about their placement. Maybe someone else here can give a good advice on which mics would be very good. I know Neumann does unbelievably good mics. But they're also expensive. My previous teaches also talked lots of good about AKG's 414-series (but yes, they cost too). But mics of thsi quality are good for anything when you once get them.

One more thing my teacher said (which I've found to be very true): if you record something really well, there might not be ANY need to do any postprocessing at all. People tend to have a need to add some EQ no matter what. But remember that IF your initial recording is good enough (with good mics, good positioning, good acoustics(!!!) and good performance), you might not need to fix your recording at all. Of course nowadays EQ is being used to create individual sounds too, etc etc.

Also, think about where you record. If your recording room has sucky acoustics, that might also be why you don't like the sound you get. Try lifting matrices on the walls, turning around on your chair (or where ever it is you're recording) etc.

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:23 pm

Nicknackerski wrote:I was wondering are there any people here Starting and finishing whole tracks in Ableton Live?

I'm Definitely suffering from Writers block and am struggling to decide what is the Culprit....Is it me?

yes.

Nicknackerski wrote:Do i need to purchase yet more Gear? Should i sell everything and do something else?

Absolutely not you can make fantastic tracks with a guitar and Ableton Live, nothing else; no addons, no vsts, no pedals, no expensive mics. I suspect that deep inside you already know this... right?

I create a track over the period of an hour, but the trouble i've been through fighting the computer to create it means ive listened to the song for an hour as well and am now sick to death of it.
It is usually saved and archived probably never to be opened again.

this is where things need to change - like suggested, record the guitar, make that the basis of the track. Don't try to sound like some other band, or a mixture of two bands, that'll always suck (imo). Instead, embrace your guitar track as the base of the track and move from there.

What controllers do you use?

Doesn't matter.

What Software plugins do you use?

doesn't matter either.

And most importantly where is you music used?
Dj-ing,
Live gigs alongside guitars Drums etc...
Tv Music, Scoring etc.

Doesn't matter either. Make music that you like, and it will find a home somewhere.

posssu · Post by **posssu** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:26 pm

Well, Machinate is right, you don't really need expensive mics, the ones I wrote about are quite expensive. As long as they sound good.

fatrabbit · Post by **fatrabbit** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:30 pm

Don't try too much to sound like one thing or one of your influences. I'm guilty of this sometimes.

It's important to listen to many varying influences and then maybe little bits of these will find their way (subconciously) into your work. But it's probably best not to try too hard at one particular thing.

It's like those ready aged guitars you can get (so they look vintage). It's not really you - they aren't your marks and scratches that you've left on your favourite guitar you've had for 10-20 years.

Nicknackerski · Post by **Nicknackerski** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:45 pm

See, at the moment (well the last 2-3 years) i've mainly been into Electronic Music,

Surely Everybody has influences that drive a particular style of music they make. Be it an artist performing or even studying Film's for Great Scoring/Compositions.

Mine are Massive attack's Mezzanine album, any Boards of canada, Primal scream's Evil heat. all great Albums to me.

Although i don't want to sound exactly like these artists i want to follow the lines there of.

I can play a few instruments and mostly use an acoustic as a means of arranging a song. although i can play piano, bass, Keyboards etc.
Recording an Acoustic used to be easy, i had a Gemini 2 and reflexion filter, sounded great. Do recorded sounds need that level of quality though when i want to FX the hell out of them anyway!

My worst enemy is myself, should i really only stick to acoustic guitar based music?
How do you guys build up an electronic Track in Ableton?

Here is a list of things i've spent money on recently for info as i definately think its me who is the problem and not gear!!!!

Tascam DM3200 mixing desk and Firewire Sound card
Mac pro 8core
Logic, Ableton, Reason
all Audio damage plugins
Soundtoys FX
Monome 256 and 64 (mosty use the great molar with it)
Cme 88 midi keyboard
Novation Remote SL
Geforce imposcar
Lives Electronic Drum suite
Ohm force Omicide
Gibson ac guitar, fender electric Guitar &bass
Fender Cybertwin Amp.
Loads more Plugins
Rode M3 Mic
really old AKG Tube microphone
Crappy room for recording (only temporary! )

People, All of your tunes sound great Btw
Thanks
Steve.

mdk · Post by **mdk** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:57 pm

Nicknackerski wrote:My worst enemy is myself, should i really only stick to acoustic guitar based music?

sorry, i should have been more explicit, im not suggesting this at all, what im suggesting is recording the guitar and building the track from that as a basis. I often do that for electronic stuff, i'll work out some chords on the guitar or a melody, record it in and then start building around it. often i'll then delete the original guitar part and keep going from there. or just run the guitar through a ton of fx so it sounds like synths anyway..

How do you guys build up an electronic Track in Ableton?

patience, practice, listening. i know thats not particularly helpful, but thats really the way it is.

the other side is to not always look at it as writing songs, often i'll just experiment with stuff..make a beat, program some synth patches, wire a ton of fx together and see what happens. BUT ALWAYS SAVE IT. render a loop and put it in your own loops folder, render a single note or sound and keep it for later to plug into a sampler.

then after a while you then end up with a library of your own stuff which you can pull in when you are writing a song.

for now dont buy anything else. seriously. you have a ton of kit. focus on your ideas and your library (which is essentially a library of your ideas)

marekhunhap · Post by **marekhunhap** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:05 pm

Nicknackerski wrote:...commercial success with an ableton track

Tom Yorke’s “The Eraser”

the important thing is not the hardware or software but what one makes

Nicknackerski · Post by **Nicknackerski** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:17 pm

mdk wrote:
sorry, i should have been more explicit, im not suggesting this at all, what im suggesting is recording the guitar and building the track from that as a basis. I often do that for electronic stuff, i'll work out some chords on the guitar or a melody, record it in and then start building around it. often i'll then delete the original guitar part and keep going from there. or just run the guitar through a ton of fx so it sounds like synths anyway..

Yes!, i thought it was maybe bad practice doing this but now i feel a bit better knowing others do it too.

mdk wrote: the other side is to not always look at it as writing songs, often i'll just experiment with stuff..make a beat, program some synth patches, wire a ton of fx together and see what happens. BUT ALWAYS SAVE IT. render a loop and put it in your own loops folder, render a single note or sound and keep it for later to plug into a sampler.
then after a while you then end up with a library of your own stuff which you can pull in when you are writing a song.

Mdk, This Really is Great Advice & my reason for starting this thread!
The rendering idea is Superb!. I guess my problem is seeing everything i do as Verse, Chorus, Middle8 breakdown Etc.

When it could be a whole project to create simply a great Hook, Drum beat, One loop, etc.

Cheers
steve.

mdk · Post by **mdk** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:29 pm

glad it helps.

on a more technical note, for the rendering remember you can do this in many ways.

often i'll keep a spare audio track ready with its input set to 'resample' and the monitor switch set to off. then anytime i can just hit record on an empty clip slot and grab a bar, 4 bars, whatever into that track.

then, right click the clip and 'show in browser', then i'll immediately rename the clip and drag it into my library.

so in the file browser the (1) directory is always set to C:/samples/MDK (my audio library).

Drag the renamed clip over the (1) button to switch to my library and then just drop it in the right folder. This is another thing which i think is important : organisation. Obviously everyone has different ways of organising stuff, personally i have :

breaks : just drum loops
loops : any kind of loop that isnt just drums
synths : samples i can use to plug into a sampler and play across the keyboard
sfx : sound effects, anything that doesnt really have a defined root note
real : samples of real instruments (but not loops..), e.g. guitar chords, licks etc..
vocal : this one is pretty obvious

and i use a similar structure for storing all the samples that arent mine, but i make a point of keeping mine separate.

similarly for organising presets for various plugins. I keep my ableton presets in my own folders in the ableton library, organised like 'mono', 'poly', 'sfx', 'rhythmic'

for 3rd party plugins i have another folder 'presets' outside of the library which is organised by plugin name.

I think one part of the creative process which is often underestimated is organisation. sometimes you just have to be a librarian for a few hours. That means that when you are in your creative flow you dont get disrupted by having to think or go hunting around for a file you left somewhere.

mdk · Post by **mdk** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:33 pm

more about the rendering, setting the input to 'resample' means you grab everything coming out the master. its definitely worth getting familiar with routing between audio tracks so you can just grab the bit you want, if its just one track you can change the input of the recording track but if you want to record a few tracks then either set their outputs to the recording track, or feed them all to another track (a bus if you will) and then pull the input of the recording track from that bus.

like i said, there are a lot of ways of routing, its just another aspect of organisation and knowing your tools.

LeifonMars · Post by **LeifonMars** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:51 pm

Don't no if this is going to help OP at all, but I've suffered from writers block for a year and half now, got only four songs finished during that time, and that's certainly not enough.
As my bands singer grew tired with my situation she started to offer her own songs (which she thought might suit our style) and came one night to my home studio to record one of her songs so I could make arrangements.
She played piano parts and sung over it.
Next day I listened to it, but before I started, I erased the pianos, and left only the vocal parts.
Then I just started to make arrangements and it worked great.
It turned out to be totally different kind what she meant it to be, much better she said. After this experience we did two more, and they were success as well.

heavensdaw · Post by **heavensdaw** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:00 pm

This is all VERY good advice!

It can take a long time to develop YOUR style.. Move WITH your passion.. And you'll create with so much more ease..

Try to finish one song.. Have FUN with the whole process.. Get into the creative flow, and see where it takes you!

Like everyone has mentioned it is not the amount of gear that you have, in fact the gear can stand in your way and sop your creative flow.. Make sure your gear HELPS you and is set up to increase and support your creativity..

I think of it a bit like the journey of water coming out from a spring high in the mountain and what it goes through on its way to the ocean....

Also don't be too harsh on yourself. For the playing, execution part ok, but for the creative aspect, over anal-ising is not your friend..

My 2cents

Hd

Are you really making Great music?

Are you really making Great music?

Re: Are you really making Great music?

Re: Are you really making Great music?