It has been mentioned that recording automation,
modulation matrix(lfos') and other wanted
features cannot be realized because of the current
live architecture.
http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?p=760903#760903
These are very important to me and many others and I
feel that live needs to remember its roots which is a live
performance tool. I feel that instead of bolting yet more
DAW features on to a out of date/limited core that a MAJOR
rewrite is long overdue to me live is starting to become stale,
jack of all trades and is loosing its niche.I keep having this
re accuring nightmare that I bought Cubase...scary!
That said I know nothing about how to run a software business
and there is no doubt that the DAW side of the customer base far
outstrips the live side and now that electronic/dance surge has
reached hiatus this will become more the case.Utimately through
time it is the users that define a softwares direction so given that
the user base has moved predominately toward DAW land the
goalposts have moved and the required tasks are different from
Lives original conception, is too much to expect the original concept to
fit?
REC AUTOMATION TO SESSION LIVE REWRITE?
REC AUTOMATION TO SESSION LIVE REWRITE?
Last edited by Mr-Bit on Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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hacktheplanet
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hacktheplanet
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Aah, well the post reads like you're weighed heavily in favor of Live including more DAW features...
As a live performance and composition tool, I think Live is the best thing ever. If I want to do some serious mixing, I'll just pop over to a DAW. I like Live's simplicity. It's very quick to do whatever I want. I'm glad it's not teeming with features, I'd probably get lost.
As a live performance and composition tool, I think Live is the best thing ever. If I want to do some serious mixing, I'll just pop over to a DAW. I like Live's simplicity. It's very quick to do whatever I want. I'm glad it's not teeming with features, I'd probably get lost.
I'm saying that maybe one ethos is built on top of the other in a detatched manner and that now the abes have the benifit of experience, hindsight and possible future requirments they might do better to start again from the ground up so to speak and avoid some situations that impede development of certain features.
Oh actually I'm heavilly in favour of a more live focus and recording automation to session clips would be a 'live' feature for methe_planet wrote:Aah, well the post reads like you're weighed heavily in favor of Live including more DAW features...
As a live performance and composition tool, I think Live is the best thing ever. If I want to do some serious mixing, I'll just pop over to a DAW. I like Live's simplicity. It's very quick to do whatever I want. I'm glad it's not teeming with features, I'd probably get lost.
Last edited by Mr-Bit on Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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chrysalis33rpm
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I think you're a bit unfocussed in your rant; I know you're trying to be balanced- but being specific about what you REALLY want would help others to agree or disagree.
A major rewrite? What should that accomplish in your opinion? Its kind of astonishing that you'd propose that and suggest only 2 features which would then be incorporated.
I am quite happy with Live's capabilities as a performance tool and as a DAW, and I feel that the emphasis should rest on the performance aspect. To me, what is missing is better control and bidirectional communication with the application- so the laptop can be set aside. But this doesn't get in my way- I simply figure that eventually I will be able to get clip names and button states etc out of Live onto a control surface.
Anyway, pretty happy here, not that there's things I'm not dying for them to add or alter, but I recognize that Live cannot be all things at once.
A major rewrite? What should that accomplish in your opinion? Its kind of astonishing that you'd propose that and suggest only 2 features which would then be incorporated.
I am quite happy with Live's capabilities as a performance tool and as a DAW, and I feel that the emphasis should rest on the performance aspect. To me, what is missing is better control and bidirectional communication with the application- so the laptop can be set aside. But this doesn't get in my way- I simply figure that eventually I will be able to get clip names and button states etc out of Live onto a control surface.
Anyway, pretty happy here, not that there's things I'm not dying for them to add or alter, but I recognize that Live cannot be all things at once.
The last thing Ableton needs is a major rewrite.
A) That would cost millions of euro.
B) That would be riddled with bugs for two years.
C) How is dance music on a break? I really can't figure out what you mean by, "hiatus." It seems to me the recording, production, and listening to of dance music has just become more and more mainstream.
Where are you from that dance music is on break? That is certainly not the case in London, Miami, New York, and LA....
Is there a break going on in Holland and Germany? I know Belgium has had a little bit of a slowdown...
Mexico and Brazil are absolutely booming with trance right now.
A) That would cost millions of euro.
B) That would be riddled with bugs for two years.
C) How is dance music on a break? I really can't figure out what you mean by, "hiatus." It seems to me the recording, production, and listening to of dance music has just become more and more mainstream.
Where are you from that dance music is on break? That is certainly not the case in London, Miami, New York, and LA....
Is there a break going on in Holland and Germany? I know Belgium has had a little bit of a slowdown...
Mexico and Brazil are absolutely booming with trance right now.
too many lasers...
Yeah ok points taken first poll 
"better control and bidirectional communication with the application"
defo
record automaton to session clips
lfo's
modulation matrix
to me these are live features
It's just that Robert Henke is saying that lives current archtecture is preventing these features from being developed and that a rewrite of lives core would need to be done.
Does it come to a point in a softwares life when the there are too many obsticals inherent by design (dead ends, corners,brick walls,dependcy) and the only way forward is a good shake up of the core structure .
I personally would rather not see L8 and wait longer for as Robert Henke puts it;
"The reason is a technical reason that leads to a conceptual problem, and we need to
solve the conceptual problem, which is very tricky, first. Then we can address the
technical problem, which is a huge effort. It's basically rewriting an important part of the engine."
"better control and bidirectional communication with the application"
defo
record automaton to session clips
lfo's
modulation matrix
to me these are live features
It's just that Robert Henke is saying that lives current archtecture is preventing these features from being developed and that a rewrite of lives core would need to be done.
Does it come to a point in a softwares life when the there are too many obsticals inherent by design (dead ends, corners,brick walls,dependcy) and the only way forward is a good shake up of the core structure .
I personally would rather not see L8 and wait longer for as Robert Henke puts it;
"The reason is a technical reason that leads to a conceptual problem, and we need to
solve the conceptual problem, which is very tricky, first. Then we can address the
technical problem, which is a huge effort. It's basically rewriting an important part of the engine."
"C) How is dance music on a break? I really can't figure out what you mean by, "hiatus." It seems to me the recording, production, and listening to of dance music has just become more and more mainstream. "
well i don't go out so much now hehe
I was meaning the initial peak sort of like when acoustic >electric>digital>????
It's not so much of a new descovery/technology any more.
"dance music has just become more and more mainstream. "
Ah so as i said "Utimately through time it is the users that define a softwares direction"
well i don't go out so much now heheI was meaning the initial peak sort of like when acoustic >electric>digital>????
It's not so much of a new descovery/technology any more.
"dance music has just become more and more mainstream. "
Ah so as i said "Utimately through time it is the users that define a softwares direction"
Music is always in a state of flux. The music bizz right now, is in an extreme state of flux, has been for years, and it hasn't seemed to settle yet.
It is up to the users, to use the tools that are available in an imaginative and innovative way. It is not up to the software companies to invent technology that can invent music. It doesn't work that way, never will.
( edit )
I highly doubt that Ableton as it is right now, is getting used to 30% of its potential by the best and most advanced Ableton Users. That is simply the nature of software, and musical instruments. These things are infinitely complex, and amazing. Every day, I find out new ways to arrange and sequence....
Recently, while I was sound designing with saw waves, I gated them, and used Erosion for the first time. Amazing little plug in, and I never used it, and it is in the Live built in Fx...
It is up to the users, to use the tools that are available in an imaginative and innovative way. It is not up to the software companies to invent technology that can invent music. It doesn't work that way, never will.
( edit )
I highly doubt that Ableton as it is right now, is getting used to 30% of its potential by the best and most advanced Ableton Users. That is simply the nature of software, and musical instruments. These things are infinitely complex, and amazing. Every day, I find out new ways to arrange and sequence....
Recently, while I was sound designing with saw waves, I gated them, and used Erosion for the first time. Amazing little plug in, and I never used it, and it is in the Live built in Fx...
Last edited by j2j on Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:33 am, edited 3 times in total.
too many lasers...
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funky shit
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If it would make it easier for them to implement more without changing less than I am in favor of an overhaul, but seeing as though there are so many little things that seem obviously already missing (no examples atm other than the upcoming paid update that includes shift+ up arrow for full octave transposition- I'm almost out the door) my spider sense says they should stick with the current state and add on to it.