Novation automap and recording midi CC in session view

[bog]

I'm looking at getting a Novation Nocturn to use with Live and I have a question about the automap and Live for those of you using Novation controllers with automap. I understand that Live has a limitation when it comes to recording automation in session view and that the way to do it currently is to use 3rd party plugins that have their own midi learn mode to record midi cc messages.

What does that mean for Novation automap controllers? Does that mean the regular plugin automap will work for recording automation in session view? Or can it only be done using the "Automap MIDI" client? Or will I not be able to do it at all with Novation automap controllers?

This is all very confusing and I hope that it can be done. Live's session view is the reason I got it in the first place but not being able to readily record knob movements would make it useless.

[sdmiddleton]

You can certainly adjust the parameters on the fly in session view using the automap or any other controller for that matter. In terms of recording the automation in the session view i'm not sure if you can, although if its just session view you want to use, you could just record all automation in the background in arramegement view- then create dummy clips from the autmation recorded in the arrangement view if you particularly want to use that automation again for future sets...

Check out the covert ops videos which you can find in tips and tricks, may give you some good ideas...

[aMUSEd]

This is the biggest reason why I've given up on Live for plugins and just use it for assembling audio clips and collage using samples I've recorded in other apps - it can't even record them for it's own synths and fx even though many of them have very useful XY pads and macro controls none of them can be recorded. You can't even easily copy/paste automation from the arrangement view into a track in session view despite the fact that you can draw it easily enough. About time they addressed this once and for all. I'm not upgrading to 8 and if they don't address this in 9 I'll probably sell it and move to a more capable host

[bog]

That doesn't sound very promising. Do either of you use an Automap controller?

I'd love to get confirmation from Automap controller users. How do you use Automap controllers like the Nocturn to record automation of 3rd party plugins? Is it via regular plugin automap or using the Automap MIDI client? Or can you not do this with Automap controllers and do I need to get something else?

[Android Bishop]

Automap is the shit, but you can only record automation into the arrangement because session clips base their automation on relative values. Since the clip automation is based on the relative value of the vst plugin parameter's current position, you cannot record automation into a session view clip. You can, however, set up some automation and play with the current position of the parameter with the controller to mess around with the relative range of the clip automation.

BTW none of this has to do specifically with Automap, this is true for everything. You can check other posts about novation automap controllers, use the search feature

[Fieldy]

so why not just recording the automation from session in arrangementview and after it`s done ,copy it back. to do it directely in session would be better, but hopefully it`s possible in live 9

[Silent Lounge]

) A few things im struggling with in regards to useing Ableton with my Remote SL. First: Is there a way to bypass the control over ableton without changing my audio/midi controller settings? For instance if im want to record a track from reason using sends/returns, the faders and knobs control both Ableton and Reason even when i switch between the two templates (37 and 40+) I feel there must be a simple way (like in reason) to toggle the controller surface to be bypassed any help would be so appreciated.


2) A second issue im running into: Lets say i automate the master fader to fade in, then i pay a few instruments and tweak a few things and it is all recorded. Now i want to moove on and add a few more sounds, i begin to record using global record in Overdub mode and the automation of the Master output is being overwritten by the 'Same fader that i am not moving" - it records nonmonvment. Is this just a problem with the faders not being motorized, is there a reasonable work around anyone knows of?


3) Lastly, very simple im sure - is there a way to have multipl banks, for instance in Bank A my x/y pad control a phaser, but while in Bank B the x/y pad contols a ping pong delay. Or similarly for any of the knobs/faders - particularly if i have 8 tracks, how do i access track >9 with the novation?

Thanks in advance for any assistance with my question, I very glad to know such a community of support excists...

- Ross (Silent Lounge Production)

[bog]

) A few things im struggling with in regards to useing Ableton with my Remote SL.

Silent Lounge, since your questions are not directly related to the question posed on this thread it might better for you to start a new topic or find one that's more suitable.

Anyway, I'm still somewhat confused with where Automap stands with this. From searching around, I've gathered that you can:
A) record controller movements of midi CCs using plugins with their own midi learn, and
B) use a virtual midi port like IAC and another midi track to route midi as a workaround to record automation of anything, not just 3rd party plugs with midi learn.

I guess I'm interested in solution A, and I was wondering what that means for controllers that use Automap. In other words, since Automap uses its own software program to handle the controller assignment, will this not work for mapping 3rd party plugs with their own midi learn? Or is the Automap MIDI client function what is needed to do this? Or should I just get a regular "dumb" midi controller?

[Silent Lounge]

Bog, i do apologize if my topic was a bit out of place, i figured since there were few threads relating to the Novation/Ableton relationship it may be nice to keep them archived collectively. In response to your question about a 'dumb controller' vs one with Auto-map i believe they both have their place. I tend to always have my 'dumb controller' available to override any mapping without confusing my master control space's workflow. For instance i use the 'dumb controller' as a mixing pallet and dont worry about remembering or labeling where things are, as i just change them later to a more sensible order. However i do find the auto-map feature extremely useful for a few reasons a) it is very quick to load a new device and be somewhat tuned in already to how you can control it. I find this to be more useful in other applications then ableton, because honestly Ableton is so easy to map on the fly, having a ton of pots and faders is most important, even if they are empty to start (i also think the APC 40 will provide quite a bit more flexibility in using Novation's Automap for other devices while the APC can be more dedicated towards ableton, b) Novation really added a nice professional and productive touch by adding 2-communicating LED Screens. This is something i have no doubt will be missed on the APC - although hopefully it feel intuitive enough that the screen and APC 40 work together experientially) Haveing the ability to visual see what im controls and the levels at which they are at is crucial to my work flow. Just a few things to consider. Hope all is well and inspiring

[bog]

Ok, can I hear from actual users of any of the Novation Automap controllers whether they've successfully recorded automation in the session view?

This would be either of the two known methods of 1) using a virtual midi port like IAC or MIDI Yoke or 2) recording MIDI CC with 3rd party plugs with their own midi learn

[timothyallan]

yes, using IAC

[aMUSEd]

2) recording MIDI CC with 3rd party plugs with their own midi learn

Don't know about the Novation but I would be interested. I can't seem to get this method to work with Ni Kore (using midi learn, not the usual VST automation) I thought it should work but nothing gets recorded. Maybe I'm doing something wrong?

[Silent Lounge]

Has anyone discovered a way to record the automation of Ableton's internal effects into a session clip successfully? For example with an X/Y control. Also im unclear on what IAC is... that would be great if someone could help.

[timothyallan]

IAC is the OS X equivalent of Midi Yoke. Except its built in to the OS.


Once you setup a midi loopback using one of those, you can record anything in session with proper mapping. I found it was too much hassle though and kept getting midi lockups etc etc...