presentation default

[synnack]

If i open one of the included devices like StepSeq, only things in presentation view show up on my device in Live.

But if i create my own from scratch by dragging Max Audio Effect from the browser onto a track, it doesn't matter what I do, everything shows up on my device in live. It ignores if things are on presentation mode or not.

Is that expected? A bug? Or an option I can change? It seems like only things that I add to presentation mode should show up on the device?

[mdk]

same here, also i noticed that items below the 'device ui boundary' affect the width calculation for the UI in live.

[synnack]

Hoffman2k just answered this question for us in another thread.

In Max click View, Patcher Inspector and enable "open in presentation". Then save the patch.

Now only things you add to presentation mode will show up in the live device.

This should be default though IMHO.

[emmanuel_2]

This should be default though IMHO.

We discussed this a lot, and we didn't want to force people to use presentation, especially for newbies.

[djod]

This should be default though IMHO.

We discussed this a lot, and we didn't want to force people to use presentation, especially for newbies.

I had the same issue. Its very confusing

Maybe there should be a pop-up window explaining this when you (first) save a patch without presentaion mode enabled. With an option to make it not appear agian.

[hoffman2k]

If it were on by default, we'd have to always turn it off.
I kinda agree with Cycling here. We're not always going to make patches that need to be presented. And if you want to present objects, you have to set them to show up in presentation view anyway, so what is one extra step to ensure the patch loads in presentation mode?
As it stands now you can whip up a quick patch without having to bring up another window.

[Machinate]

but the point is that all patches ARE presented - that silly line across the whole screen is basically like an "alternate presentation mode - by teaching the users HOW MUCH easier it is to actually build something and not worry about the physical placement of the objects makes it much SIMPLER, not harder for newbs.

But it is what it is.
Andreas - head architect, Tautological Institute.

[longjohns]

that silly line across the whole screen

= live device view boundary???

[longjohns]

i understand you now -

had not looked at the edit screen for a default "max instrument"

[posssu]

I also find it confusing the current way.

I'd have a new patch start in presentation mode, adding everything to presentation mode (and therefore showing it in Live) by default and having this Live-vertical-limiter-line also appear in Presentation mode. This way all the newbies would start a new device just the way it works now - having a clean device-template with a vertical limiter.

The only difference to this would be that people who want to hide cabling with more complex devices could actually hide stuff from presentation mode as it gets complicated and go "under the hood" by entering patch-mode.

I'd find this much more logical. As it is currently set, the existence of presentation mode is somehow confusing.

[stringtapper]

I'm just going to run down my thoughts on this issue.

There are four states that a patch can be in:

• Locked Presentation Mode
• Unlocked Presentation Mode
• Locked Patching Mode
• Unlocked Patching Mode

The "Device Line" will show up in either unlocked Presentation Mode or unlocked Patching Mode depending on whether "Open in Presentation" has been checked in the Patcher Inspector. If this preference is checked then the line will show in unlocked Presentation Mode.

From what I can tell from how the devs have set up some of the pre-rolled devices Presentation Mode fits into the scheme of M4L like this:

• Locked Presentation Mode is basically the GUI of the device as you will see it in Live's device lane.

• Unlocked Presentation Mode is where the device GUI should be built. All adjustments to objects meant to be seen in the GUI should be done here.

• Locked Patching Mode is for displaying the inner workings of the patch along with comments for explaining them. Since the patch is locked it should also be able to run, so the newcomer to the patch can experiment with it while they read the comments. (I'm confused about this part because it doesn't seem that a true preview mode exists in this beta. What I had expected was that the patch could run seamlessly no matter what state it was in, patcher or M4L device.)

• Unlocked Patching Mode is for editing the device mechanisms themselves. Pretty self-evident.


Now this (overly obvious) rundown is an idealized version of how one would patch. It's doubtful that every tweaker who gets his hands on M4L will comment his devices. To do so is really to create two GUIS: one for the device itself, and one for the patch explanation.

The issue is whether all new M4L device patchers should default to "Open in Presentation." I think the decision not to have it that way comes at it from the angle that you don't create a GUI first and then make the guts that run the device. Granted most devices will eventually be put into "Open in Presentation," but I think to start from there is not sensitive to how the patching process works (in general).



@tl;dr-ers: that stuff up there means I think the "Open in Presentation" patcher inspector preference should remain off by default.

[nq]

i'd rather not have „open in presentation mode“ by default. as i usually patch in the regular mode it would be one extra step to turn it off again. if i'm finished with patching, then it would be a good time to think about presentation mode.

presentation mode should be the last step in writing patches imo.

[posssu]

But the thing is that currently the patch-mode acts as a presentation-mode. What I'm suggesting is that the presentation mode-button would just be active when you start. It would show up precisely the same way it does now and you'd see exactly the same stuff, but the button should be active imho because it currently acts like the presentation mode.

You said that the last thing you do is go to presentation mode. But currently everything you add to the device shows in the device, so basically you ARE in the presentation mode. This is why I think the button should reflect this too. And if you'd like to hide stuff, you just select them and click "Hide from presentation mode". The way it works now seems a big illogical.

[nq]

maybe i just don't get it. if you open an already existing device and "open in presentation mode“ is checked. it opens in presentation mode.

if you oen a new and empty m4l device it opens in patching mode.

seems absolutely logical to me.
having an empty device open in presentation mode would be way more confusing and is an unnecessary step towards patching.

[posssu]

maybe i just don't get it. if you open an already existing device and "open in presentation mode“ is checked. it opens in presentation mode.

if you oen a new and empty m4l device it opens in patching mode.

seems absolutely logical to me.
having an empty device open in presentation mode would be way more confusing and is an unnecessary step towards patching.

The thing I see as a problem is that the contents of the patching mode show in the device by default. Patching mode is not the presentation mode and you shouldn't see the contents in the device. Also, this Vertical-limit-guideline shows in patching mode, which - again - isn't presentation mode. Yet it provides visual guidelines to the appearance.

I find it that patching mode and presentation mode are mixed in a way now, making the actual presentation mode a bit useless...