Traktor, Live, and the APC

Share your favorite Ableton Live tips, tricks, and techniques.
Post Reply
drewbixcube
Posts: 298
Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:37 am

Traktor, Live, and the APC

Post by drewbixcube » Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:06 am

Getting Started


The main idea behind this is to be able to control Traktor with the APC without losing the ability to quickly navigate between clip grids. Live will play a sort of "backseat" for the most part, as the visual representation of the APC negates needing to switch back and forth between the two apps. No Max is needed, no Bome's, and no MIDI Yoke/IAC. What it does use is Traktor's virtual MIDI ports. This is basically the same as using MIDI Yoke/IAC, so if you'd prefer, you could switch it up.

For the audio setup, I'm using Soundflower (Mac only) to route Traktor's audio back into Live. This allows me to use Live's FX in addition to Traktor's, including dummy clips. I'm sure there's an equivalent of Soundflower for PC, but I'm unaware of what it is. Maybe someone here could chime in? You could very well keep the audio inside Traktor if you'd prefer, but you wouldn't be able to use Live's FX.


Traktor's Preferences

MIDI: Make sure the APC in and out are enabled, in addition to the virtual MIDI ports. Send MIDI Clock should also be enabled so Live will recognize Traktor's MIDI output.

Image


Audio: If you're going to route audio back into Live, select external mixer and make sure the audio is routed accordingly. Soundflower's stereo pairs start at 0-1, instead of 1-2.

Image


Live's Preferences

MIDI: APC remote must be enabled as there are some controls being overridden. Sync must be enabled from the input of the virtual output (confusing, no?) in order for Live to receive MIDI clock messages from Traktor. More on that later. And finally, enable Track for Traktor's virtual input so it recognizes Live's MIDI notes.

Image


Audio: From Live, route to your audio interface for mixing and cueing. As you can see, I'm still shopping for one.

Image


Assigning Controls

For general purpose, there are two types of controls I've assigned: Those being triggered by Live, and those being controlled from the APC. When something is assigned control from the APC, it is important that its automap function is overridden. If the control is assigned within Live, this is automatic, but if it's assigned in Traktor it has to be overridden "manually".

To do this, I've created an empty Instrument Rack on an unused track within Live. Once I map the control to do what I'd like in Traktor, I then map it to a macro on the instrument rack. This also allows me to keep things tidy, as I can then rename the macro something descriptive, in addition to writing a little note to myself in info view.

Image


The current list of these controls is as follows:

Faders 1 and 5 - Deck A,B volume (Live)
Master Fader - Master tempo (Traktor)
Cue Level knob - Track select up/down + "Browse" layout select (Traktor)
-Create a layout in Traktor labeled "Browse", switching deck size to mini to utilize this macro.
Detail View button - Load track to stopped deck + "Play" layout select (Traktor)
-Create a layout in Traktor labeled "Play", switching deck size to full to utilize this macro.
Rec Quantization button - Quantize ON/OFF (Traktor)
-Enables quantization to Traktor's beat grid.
Play button - MIDI clock send ON (Traktor)
-Used to play Live. Live's EXT button must also be enabled.
Stop button - MIDI clock send OFF (Traktor)
-Used to stop Live. Live's EXT button must also be enabled.
Rec button- MIDI clock sync (Traktor)
-Used to re-sync Live to Traktor's MIDI clock, if needed. Live's EXT button must also be enabled.
Pan button - Filter reset (Traktor) + pan section select (APC)
-Because I didn't override this button's automap, I'm still able to cycle through the four banks of knobs in the Track Control section.
The only difference is I've overridden the Pan section's knob control. (see below)

Pan section knob 1 - Deck A low cut (Live)
Pan section knob 2 - Deck A mid cut (Live)
Pan section knob 3 - Deck A high cut (Live)
Pan section knob 4 - Deck A filter (Traktor)
Pan section knob 5 - Deck B low cut (Live)
Pan section knob 6 - Deck B mid cut (Live)
Pan section knob 7 - Deck B high cut (Live)
Pan section knob 8 - Deck B Filter (Traktor)

I will add to this list as I add to the map.


Next we have the triggers:

Play
-Self explanatory...
Cue Play
-This is not CUP, but rather the way I prefer a Cue Play button to work. Using the shortest possible follow action in Live, it will always play from the currently active cue. Whether it's one of the hotcues, or a floating cue as defined by the Set cue button... it works at it should.
Cue Play [Loop 4, 2, 1]
-These buttons instantiate 4, 2, or 1 beat loops from the currently active cue. These aren't Traktor loops, but rather Live clip loops that trigger the Cue Play button at the set interval.
Hotcues 3-8
-These trigger user defined cue points in Traktor. I've only used six as typically the first hotcue I use for the beatgrid, while the second I use for the load cue.
Set Cue
-Activates a floating cue, which can then be re-triggered via Cue Play, or assigned to a hot cue via Store Cue.
Store Cue
-Assigns a cue to a hotcue. It will always store it in the first available spot.
Delete Cue
-Deletes the currently selected cue. Careful with this one... if you trigger this after triggering a hotcue, you will lose the hotcue. Of course, this may be what you want in the first place.
Load Cue
-Triggers the user defined loading point of the loaded track. When set to the first down beat, this is a fast way to return to the begging of a song.
Seek Left
-Rewinds the currently loaded track.
Seek Right
-Fast forwards through the currently loaded track

These are all mapped to the same note, but are sending on different channels (see "Pressing Play" section). I start Deck A on Channel 13 as I'm uncertain how many channels the APC is using, and I'd rather not cross over. Does anyone have the MIDI specifications of the APC handy? Anyhow, decks B-D are mapped to channels 14-16, respectively.

The set I'm using at the moment looks like this on the APC grid:

Image


...and like this in Live:

Image


What you're looking at in the Live set are a bunch of one note clips. Some are set to loop, while others are one shots. It all depends on the function you're trying to control in Traktor. Also, if you don't like the way they're set up, simply drag the clip to where you'd rather have it and the APC will adjust accordingly.


Pressing Play

To go into greater detail on how the Live set is controlling Taktor, I'm going to explain how I got it to play in the first place. I started with an empty Drum Rack, inserted an instrument on one of the pads, then promptly deleted that instrument to create an empty chain. This allowed me to use the MIDI note assigned to the drum pad without triggering an instrument, but more importantly it allowed me to rename the chain:

Image

Image


To finish mapping, I create a note where I want it to go, enable MIDI learn in Traktor, then launch the clip. At this point it's best to rename the clip before moving it to the APC grid, as you will lose the note name when you move the clip from the Drum Rack. Also, keep in mind, MIDI from the Drum Rack has to be routed to another MIDI channel in order to get routed into Traktor for mapping:

Image


Back to pressing play, it's important to know the different MIDI functions Traktor offers. I'm not going to go into too much detail about them here, but I'm happy to answer any questions you may have. What I wanted to happen when I pressed play, besides having the track play, was for the appropriate button on the APC to stay lit. To do this, I set Traktor to play on hold, then created a looped clip:

Image

Image


The two other notes you see there are deck Sync and Modifier #1 ON. The deck Sync button snaps the track playing in that deck back to the beat grid and right on tempo. The Modifier button turns on Modifier #1. Because Live and Traktor are tied by this note, when the MIDI Clock Sync button is pressed there are audio drop outs while Live stops and re-starts. However, assigning Mod 1 ON to the play button and Mod 1 OFF (hold) to the MIDI Clock Sync button, Traktor will continue playing while Live catches back up. The one thing I've noticed though is that the MIDI Clock Sync button needs to be pressed twice consecutively in order for it to take, but as long as the track keeps playing, I'm happy. You might have also noticed that E0 is assigned in Traktor while E-1 is playing in Live. I don't know what to tell you there. I guess one of the programs is an octave off, and It's probably Traktor.

Anyhow, I now have a button that presses play on the assigned deck in Traktor, and stays lit on the APC, until clip stop is pressed, or another clip in the same track is pressed.


Summary

Keep in mind, this is only the first grid of the APC that I've mapped so far. There's much, much more to do and to play with. Also, I'm sure there are a plethora of ways to map this same setup, including with Max, and when Max for Live is released, I'll give 'em a whirl. This should get you started though. I plan on posting the full .tsi and Live set when they're finished. If you'd like to get a hold of what I have done at the present moment, send me a PM. Feel free to ask questions too!

On a side note, this technique doesn't necessarily need the APC to work, so don't be afraid to try this trick with your own controller, and have fun!


Next Grid: Looping and Beat Jumping

cacti
Posts: 900
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:53 pm

Re: Traktor, Live, and the APC

Post by cacti » Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:40 am

wow. Thats very interesting, thanks for posting.

de wouzer
Posts: 236
Joined: Sun May 18, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: Traktor, Live, and the APC

Post by de wouzer » Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:44 pm

I think soundflower is not stable enough to use it as an internal connection between ableton and Traktor. I tried a few times... and sometimes a lot of noise came out of it, suddenly
macbook 2.4 ghz 2 gig ram, akai MPK 25, uc33e, apc40, ableton 8 suite, krk vx6, NI audio 8

shamburglar
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:42 pm

Re: Traktor, Live, and the APC

Post by shamburglar » Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:52 pm

Instead of soundflower use Jackpilot much more stable with Traktor and Ableton. But make sure you run the soundflower uninstall first.

isaachrvat
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:50 pm
Location: Madrid
Contact:

Re: Traktor, Live, and the APC

Post by isaachrvat » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:55 pm

very nice post drewbixcube!!...

i havent try this, but i have a question, is there an issue by routing the audio from traktor to live with directly from the Audio 8 DJ soundcard? maybe latency?

i am new in ableton, and today i was trying to sync it....and i did, but now i see i was doing something more complicated thant what you explained here....lol....

thanks.

drewbixcube
Posts: 298
Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:37 am

Re: Traktor, Live, and the APC

Post by drewbixcube » Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:39 am

Thanks guys!

In regards to the Audio 8 DJ, I've never used it. I'm sure latency will be an issue if you're routing the audio externally before routing it back into Live. Maybe there's a way to use it to route internally? If not, I'd suggest using Soundflower or Jackpilot (thanks shamburglar!) to route the from Traktor to Live, then use the Audio 8 DJ to route to your mixer or straight out to your system if you're mixing internally.

Post Reply