Maschine as VST in Ableton Live (full, useful tutorial)

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hiphopdontstop
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Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:58 pm

Maschine as VST in Ableton Live (full, useful tutorial)

Post by hiphopdontstop » Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:01 pm

(this is posted on the NI forums, but I figured I'd post it here, too):



Hey all! This tutorial was inspired by Saintjoe of Soundsandgear.com.... he made a video "recording MIDI from Maschine into Ableton Live" video, which can be found here:

Recording MIDI into Live's sequencer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhBBhSOWCMk



This tutorial is designed with hip hop producers / sample choppers in mind. It is also made for those who find Maschine's built-in sequencer extremely limited (as most of us have complained about). Ableton Live users know that its Session View/Arrangement View are especially good for creating complex arrangements (especially for the automatable mutes/solos, volume, etc). Automatable mutes are especially useful in hip hop production... as the beat drops out and comes back in randomly, etc. All the hip hop producers out there know what I'm talking about.

Here is a step-by-step guide on getting it going with Ableton Live 7 or 8. And this tutorial is just for Maschine's 8 groups matched to 8 separate Ableton Live tracks (I for instance, love 95% of Maschine's library... great sounds, great kits, great instruments).

Furtermore, as we Maschine users have complained about... Maschine doesn't have time-stretching..... but Ableton sure does. And combining Live audio tracks with the 8 Groups in Maschine, you are able to use warped loops right alongside your Maschine sounds and extensive sampling & chopping capabilities.

Most of the details are in saintjoe's video, but, this goes into deep detail and explains the changes you need to make when using a Maschine instrument (using Sound Midi Settings on the SOUND itself, and not the GROUP, which is Sound MIDI Batch Settings)... it will all be explained below.

Hope you guys find this useful!


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PART ONE
Setting up Ableton Live first


First, create a template in Ableton (and save it in your Live Library to recall at any time). Here's how to do it (from a nearly-empty Live set, with only one MIDI track):

Image

1. Insert the Maschine VST

insert all of the following tracks to the LEFT of the Maschine VST track (easier to match Maschine Groups / Live Tracks)

2. Insert a MIDI track (or if it's already in the set, don't worry about it)

3. Insert an External Instrument plugin track (Live Library - Instruments - External Instrument)

4. Set your MIDI track's routing (everything to and from Maschine, with MIDI channel 1, as seen in screenshot above)

5. Set your External Instrument plugin track as seen below:


Image



6. Duplicate your External Instrument track 6 times so you have a total of 7 External Instrument tracks (so, MIDI track is far left in your set, and all the External Instrument tracks are to the right of it, and then the Maschine VST plugin track is far right).

7. IMPORTANT - set your External Instrument tracks as seen in the screenshot below... make sure each Channel and Ext Output routing goes up by one, for the remaining tracks...for example, this second External Instrument track is on Channel 3, and using Maschine Out3 (Ext Out 3). The next External Instrument track will be on Channel 4, and using Maschine Out4 (Ext Out 4), etc.

Image

8. Rename all your tracks to correspond with the Groups on Maschine (as seen in the above screenshots and the first one (the whole set).

9. Save your Live set!!


PART TWO
Setting up the Maschine VST


(see the first reply to just get the Maschine project file... but it's good to know how to do this step-by-step, anyway)


This can be confusing, as it utilizes the Sound Batch MIDI settings and Sound MIDI settings, which SEEM like they're GLOBAL... but they're NOT. This is a bug I think NI should address, which we will mention in the Feature Request section. Anyway, onto the remaining steps.

1. Set your Groups as follows (it helps to match this tutorial and keep consistency in your future workflow):

GROUP A - Maschine drumkit 1
GROUP B - Maschine instrument 1 (I use a bass, Group "B" for "bass")
GROUP C - Maschine instrument 2 (I use piano usually)
GROUP D - Maschine instrument 3 (whatever else I want)
GROUP E - leave open for Sampling / chopping samples
GROUP F - leave open for Sampling / chopping samples
GROUP G - leave open for Sampling / chopping samples
GROUP H - leave open for Sampling / chopping samples

*make sure you enable "keyboard" mode in Maschine for any Instrument tracks, so the sound is spread chromatically across all 16 pads)*

2. Right-click on Group A in the Maschine software and select Sound MIDI Batch setup. Set it to Sounds To Midi Notes, and select channel 1. Hit Apply.


Image
Image


4. Select Group B in Maschine software (or press Group B on hardware). Right-click on the sound slot of Group B in the Maschine software. Select Sound MIDI Settings.

Image

5. Tick the box that says "Enable" and CHANGE THE MIDI CHANNEL to CHANNEL 2 (this is important!)

6. Select Group C. Right-click on the sound slot of Group C in Maschine software. Select Sound MIDI Settings. Tick the box that says "Enable" and CHANGE THE MIDI CHANNEL to CHANNEL 3 (it will still say 2, making you think it's a global setting, but it's not!).

7. Select Group D. Right-click on the sound slot of Group D in Maschine software. Select Sound MIDI Settings. Tick the box that says "Enable" and CHANGE THE MIDI CHANNEL to CHANNEL 4 (it will still say 3, from your last change, making you still think it's a global setting, but again, it's not!).

8. Right-click on Group E, set to MIDI Channel 5...... REPEAT THE STEP for Groups F, G, and H (make sure you change the MIDI channels to 6, 7 and 8, respectively).

12. Now go into each Group in Maschine (make sure it's set to GROUP - and NOT "Master" or "Sound" - set Group B's output to Ext Out 2. Set Group C's to Ext Out 3..... so on, so forth, until Group H is set to Ext Out 8.

Image

Image



PART THREE
Important things to keep in mind



If you arm a track in Ableton and don't have the matching Group selected in Maschine, you will hear two tracks mixed with whatever Group you have selected... basically playing on top of each other. So for example, make sure if you arm Track 3 in Ableton, Group 3 is active on Maschine. This tip doesn't apply if you set all your Ableton track monitoring to "off" instead of "auto." When they're off, the sounds won't be mixed.

If you have a midi keyboard in addition to Maschine, it's best to route your "midi from" track (whichever has an instrument on it, in our case, tracks 2 3 and 4--- Groups B, C and D), using "All Ins", especially on Maschine "instrument" tracks (bass guitar, piano, guitar, strings, pads). The disadvantage to this is that when "All Ins" is selected, you can't use the Maschine pads to play your sound/group. That's where Maschine as a generic midi controller comes in. But, for bass and piano parts, it's best to use a regular midi keyboard if you have one in your setup.

If you only want to use other MIDI controllers to record MIDI (but using Maschine's soundbank/library), set the "Midi From" routing for each Ableton track to "All Ins." The cool thing with this setup is, whichever track you have armed in Ableton.... your midi controller will become that Group, and you don't have to set Maschine's active Group to hear that sound.

If you have the APC40, it's even better, because you can record/automate your mutes and automate your soloed tracks and change Ableton Scenes on the fly... especially when recording into an Arrangement (perfect for hip hop production). And as mentioned in the above paragraph, once you arm a track on the APC40, your midi controller will become that Maschine Group (but only if you have your Ableton "midi from" set to "All Ins", otherwise you'll need to select the Group on Maschine to match your armed track in Ableton.
Last edited by hiphopdontstop on Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:25 pm, edited 6 times in total.

hiphopdontstop
Posts: 146
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:58 pm

Re: Maschine as VST in Ableton Live (full, useful tutorial)

Post by hiphopdontstop » Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:09 pm

Yes, I realized I should have just provided a Maschine project file instead of the tutorial, but I figure... it's best to know how to do it yourself and always have the project file handy.

So, here is the Maschine set, set up exactly as seen in my screenshots, using only Maschine's library for sounds.

Hope this is helpful!


http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... 1275925959

philh
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Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:50 pm

Re: Maschine as VST in Ableton Live (full, useful tutorial)

Post by philh » Wed Jun 09, 2010 8:31 am

Thank you!!

hiphopdontstop
Posts: 146
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Re: Maschine as VST in Ableton Live (full, useful tutorial)

Post by hiphopdontstop » Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:52 am

Welcome! Finally someone who finds this useful. haha.

philh
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Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:50 pm

Re: Maschine as VST in Ableton Live (full, useful tutorial)

Post by philh » Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:22 pm

This is an excellent tutorial, sir! What I don't get is how to record the midi events from maschine. Is there a better way than switching to generic midi mode?

hiphopdontstop
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Re: Maschine as VST in Ableton Live (full, useful tutorial)

Post by hiphopdontstop » Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:34 pm

This is the way to record without having to switch to general midi mode. It works fine. :)

Winterpark
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Re: Maschine as VST in Ableton Live (full, useful tutorial)

Post by Winterpark » Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:19 am

Heya,

I've tried to set this up... done it a couple of times step by step.

I can get it to work so maschine has each of it's audio routed to the different audio channels via the external instruments, but am trying to get it so midi clips in live trigger each group. Is it meant to work this way? or am i missing something?
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hiphopdontstop
Posts: 146
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Re: Maschine as VST in Ableton Live (full, useful tutorial)

Post by hiphopdontstop » Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:30 pm

Not sure exactly what you mean. It works exactly as it should for me. Please clarify exactly what you're trying to do.

philh
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Re: Maschine as VST in Ableton Live (full, useful tutorial)

Post by philh » Sun Jun 13, 2010 10:35 pm

ok now I got it. This is only working with the VST plugin. AU can't send midi.

Winterpark
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Re: Maschine as VST in Ableton Live (full, useful tutorial)

Post by Winterpark » Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:36 am

hiphopdontstop wrote:Not sure exactly what you mean. It works exactly as it should for me. Please clarify exactly what you're trying to do.
I can record midi onto the channels, it's just won't play it back properly.

It may play one note, and then skip the others, or may not play anything at all, or it may play back only what's in group A, whatever channel you arm, or select on Maschine.

It's pretty strange actually, i've been through the routings a number of times, and am assuming that there is something wrong with a preference in Maschine that is not covered in your tutorial. I've set it up both as you have demonstrated and how the guy in the youtibe clip has done it and it doesn't work 'as expected'.

anyway... and don't expect you to be able to fix it for me online.... just strange that i can't quite nut it out.
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hiphopdontstop
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Re: Maschine as VST in Ableton Live (full, useful tutorial)

Post by hiphopdontstop » Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:04 am

The reason it only plays one note is because you're playing an Instrument track in Maschine... you need to set any instrument Group's Sound MIDI settings as mentioned in the tutorial... it will record the notes just fine, but only play back the root note of your progression (even if you have Keyboard mode set in Maschine).. the Sound MIDI settings for that group (right-click the group) matter in this case.... I had the same problem and it was driving me nuts. It is RECORDING the notes, right? Even if it's only playing back the bottom left pad?

vmcjr1
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Re: Maschine as VST in Ableton Live (full, useful tutorial)

Post by vmcjr1 » Mon Jun 14, 2010 1:47 am

yo this is the greatest, massive workflow improvement, i'm loving it- but I'm having that same problem as am. yeah, it's recording and looking all the notes, like it should work- then i just hear the one root note. what exactly did you do to fix that hiphopdontstop, or didn't you fix it.... cheers

vc

hiphopdontstop
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Re: Maschine as VST in Ableton Live (full, useful tutorial)

Post by hiphopdontstop » Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:08 am

"Right-click on the sound slot of Group B in the Maschine software. Select Sound MIDI Settings."

5. Tick the box that says "Enable" and CHANGE THE MIDI CHANNEL to CHANNEL 2 (this is important!)


Or put another way...

Whatever Group has a Maschine "Instrument" on it (in my case, Group B, C and D), you need to right-click the SOUND SLOT in Maschine (as the image shows-- I right-clicked where it says "Scarbee J-Bass")..... and select SOUND MIDI SETTINGS, and tick the box that says "Enable" and change the midi channel to 2 (if you have everything routed the way I wrote... channel 2 matches Group B... channel 3 matches Group C..... etc)



This is a HUGE, important step. That should fix the problem you guys are having. It ONLY applies to Maschine "instruments" (piano, bass, guitars, leads, synths, etc)... anything that you enable "keyboard" mode on.

Winterpark
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Re: Maschine as VST in Ableton Live (full, useful tutorial)

Post by Winterpark » Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:04 am

got it!

nice one.

that sound vs. group thing was the thing that totally got me... i think i had both of them enabled, and it was doing different things each time... but all good now.

thanks again... it's a cool workflow.
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2be
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Re: Maschine as VST in Ableton Live (full, useful tutorial)

Post by 2be » Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:15 am

I don't own a Maschine yet, but certainly looking forward to buy one when I got the spare money.
Do I understand your setup correctly? It's like using Live session view instead of the Maschine arrangement, so you can record & trigger clips out of Live (maybe even with a launchpad), but Maschine handles everything else? Sounds quiet awesome.

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