[5813] L8 Bug: External Audio Send Effect no PDC
-
- Posts: 525
- Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:47 pm
- Location: Universe>Earth>Europe>Germany
[5813] L8 Bug: External Audio Send Effect no PDC
For an External Audio Effect plugged into an FX Return channel the Internal PDC (latency compensation for Lookahead values, VST/au buffer and Track Delay values) did not work correctly in Live 8 (-the compensation for the audio interface buffer works like expected-).
- Checked with Live 8.0.4 and the newest beta (Live 8.0.5b6) on a Macbook with OS 10.5.7 -
To reproduce create a live set with two tracks and a return track.
Create - for example - a simpler on track 1 with a short sound. Create a midi clip to trigger this sound.
Monitoring off this track is auto and the track is not armed.
Latency Compensation must turned on.
Tweak the fx send for the simpler track to 100 percent (0 dB)
Insert an Ableton "External Audio Effect" plug-in into the return track.
Dry/Wet must be 100 percent wet.
Route the ins and outs of the plug-in to an External (bypassed) Effect of your choice -or directly from an output to an input of your audio interface, so that you can hear the sound of the simpler back thru the external effect.
Ideally there is no flanging to hear between the original and the returned sound (depending on a correct Driver Error Compensation and the external Effect unit).
Now change the Track Delay from the second (unused) track to e.g. -200 milliseconds.
Now you will hear a delay from the original to the returned sound of 200 milliseconds.
The same occurs with VST or Audio Unit Plug-Ins (the appearing delay is depending on the buffer size for plug-ins in the cpu preference tab and the number of plug-ins in this track) or with Ableton Plug-Ins with a lookahead value.
In Live 7 this is working like a charm (no problems).
This makes it very hard to use my External Reverb Unit as a main reverb within Live 8.
Hope this will be fixed soon.
Regards, p.e.
- Checked with Live 8.0.4 and the newest beta (Live 8.0.5b6) on a Macbook with OS 10.5.7 -
To reproduce create a live set with two tracks and a return track.
Create - for example - a simpler on track 1 with a short sound. Create a midi clip to trigger this sound.
Monitoring off this track is auto and the track is not armed.
Latency Compensation must turned on.
Tweak the fx send for the simpler track to 100 percent (0 dB)
Insert an Ableton "External Audio Effect" plug-in into the return track.
Dry/Wet must be 100 percent wet.
Route the ins and outs of the plug-in to an External (bypassed) Effect of your choice -or directly from an output to an input of your audio interface, so that you can hear the sound of the simpler back thru the external effect.
Ideally there is no flanging to hear between the original and the returned sound (depending on a correct Driver Error Compensation and the external Effect unit).
Now change the Track Delay from the second (unused) track to e.g. -200 milliseconds.
Now you will hear a delay from the original to the returned sound of 200 milliseconds.
The same occurs with VST or Audio Unit Plug-Ins (the appearing delay is depending on the buffer size for plug-ins in the cpu preference tab and the number of plug-ins in this track) or with Ableton Plug-Ins with a lookahead value.
In Live 7 this is working like a charm (no problems).
This makes it very hard to use my External Reverb Unit as a main reverb within Live 8.
Hope this will be fixed soon.
Regards, p.e.
Live 8_3_4 + 4b7_32+64 -Suite- Max4Live 5_1_9 _ core2DuoMacBook 2*2,16 Ghz + external FW HD _ OSX 10.6.8 _ 3G RAM _ M.H. MIO 2882 + 5.4d208 Driver _ Faderfox LV1 _ Akai MPK25 _ Logitec wheel mouse _______ PeacE will be the SOLution of LIVE
-
- Posts: 525
- Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:47 pm
- Location: Universe>Earth>Europe>Germany
Re: L8 Bug: External Audio Send Effect no PDC
Hi,
It would be nice if someone (developer, user ...) can confirm this bug.
cheers, p.e.
It would be nice if someone (developer, user ...) can confirm this bug.
cheers, p.e.
Live 8_3_4 + 4b7_32+64 -Suite- Max4Live 5_1_9 _ core2DuoMacBook 2*2,16 Ghz + external FW HD _ OSX 10.6.8 _ 3G RAM _ M.H. MIO 2882 + 5.4d208 Driver _ Faderfox LV1 _ Akai MPK25 _ Logitec wheel mouse _______ PeacE will be the SOLution of LIVE
-
- Posts: 525
- Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:47 pm
- Location: Universe>Earth>Europe>Germany
Re: L8 Bug: External Audio Send Effect no PDC
Sorry to bring this thread on top again but next time we will have the stable version of 8.0.5 (and I assume it will last some month to get v8.0.6)
This issue is not unimportant for me and it would be really really nice if this is fixed with version 8.0.5
Thanks in advance, p.e.
This issue is not unimportant for me and it would be really really nice if this is fixed with version 8.0.5
Thanks in advance, p.e.
Live 8_3_4 + 4b7_32+64 -Suite- Max4Live 5_1_9 _ core2DuoMacBook 2*2,16 Ghz + external FW HD _ OSX 10.6.8 _ 3G RAM _ M.H. MIO 2882 + 5.4d208 Driver _ Faderfox LV1 _ Akai MPK25 _ Logitec wheel mouse _______ PeacE will be the SOLution of LIVE
-
- Posts: 525
- Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:47 pm
- Location: Universe>Earth>Europe>Germany
Re: L8 Bug: External Audio Send Effect no PDC
Last chance to get this fixed with the oficial Live 8.0.5 version,
so I write again.
Also, I have some more Infos about this issue.
It is not only an issue of the External Audio Effect plugged into a return track.
Same behaviour if I use this plug-in in a normal track and in the case there is in front of the plug-in another plug-in which introduces latency.
As an example:
(Delay Compensation is on, track is not record enabled)
Track chain> Ableton Compressor with 10 ms lookahead > External Audio Effect
Result: this track will be 10 ms late.
Same Track chain in an other order> External Audio Effect> Ableton Compressor with 10 ms lookahead
Result: this track will be in sync (0 ms delay)
as I mentioned in my post above this is only an issue with Live 8 (Live 7 behaves perfect as expected)
Conclusion: Every latency in a whole audio path that is introduced in front of The External Audio Effect will not be compensated by the PDC.
Second conclusion: Since Live 8 the External Audio Effect is mostly useless
cheers, p.e.
so I write again.
Also, I have some more Infos about this issue.
It is not only an issue of the External Audio Effect plugged into a return track.
Same behaviour if I use this plug-in in a normal track and in the case there is in front of the plug-in another plug-in which introduces latency.
As an example:
(Delay Compensation is on, track is not record enabled)
Track chain> Ableton Compressor with 10 ms lookahead > External Audio Effect
Result: this track will be 10 ms late.
Same Track chain in an other order> External Audio Effect> Ableton Compressor with 10 ms lookahead
Result: this track will be in sync (0 ms delay)
as I mentioned in my post above this is only an issue with Live 8 (Live 7 behaves perfect as expected)
Conclusion: Every latency in a whole audio path that is introduced in front of The External Audio Effect will not be compensated by the PDC.
Second conclusion: Since Live 8 the External Audio Effect is mostly useless
cheers, p.e.
Live 8_3_4 + 4b7_32+64 -Suite- Max4Live 5_1_9 _ core2DuoMacBook 2*2,16 Ghz + external FW HD _ OSX 10.6.8 _ 3G RAM _ M.H. MIO 2882 + 5.4d208 Driver _ Faderfox LV1 _ Akai MPK25 _ Logitec wheel mouse _______ PeacE will be the SOLution of LIVE
Re: L8 Bug: External Audio Send Effect no PDC
Hi Palmer Eldritch,
I could reproduce the problem, report for our developers filed.
Best,
Jörg
I could reproduce the problem, report for our developers filed.
Best,
Jörg
ableton support team
support@ableton.com
support@ableton.com
-
- Posts: 525
- Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:47 pm
- Location: Universe>Earth>Europe>Germany
Re: L8 Bug: External Audio Send Effect no PDC
Good newsjok wrote: I could reproduce the problem, report for our developers filed.
And thanks very much for investigating.
regards, p.e.
Live 8_3_4 + 4b7_32+64 -Suite- Max4Live 5_1_9 _ core2DuoMacBook 2*2,16 Ghz + external FW HD _ OSX 10.6.8 _ 3G RAM _ M.H. MIO 2882 + 5.4d208 Driver _ Faderfox LV1 _ Akai MPK25 _ Logitec wheel mouse _______ PeacE will be the SOLution of LIVE
Re: L8 Bug: External Audio Send Effect no PDC
Hi Palmer Eldritch,
we fixed a bug where the PDC was not working properly with External Audio Effect in Live 8.0.5b10.
http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=122626
I moved that thread into the beta forum for that reason too.
Regards
/Alex
we fixed a bug where the PDC was not working properly with External Audio Effect in Live 8.0.5b10.
http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=122626
I moved that thread into the beta forum for that reason too.
Regards
/Alex
-
- Posts: 525
- Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:47 pm
- Location: Universe>Earth>Europe>Germany
Re: [5813] L8 Bug: External Audio Send Effect no PDC
Hi Alex,
Thank you very much.
Checked this with b10 and now it works perfect.
regards, p.e.
Thank you very much.
Checked this with b10 and now it works perfect.
regards, p.e.
Live 8_3_4 + 4b7_32+64 -Suite- Max4Live 5_1_9 _ core2DuoMacBook 2*2,16 Ghz + external FW HD _ OSX 10.6.8 _ 3G RAM _ M.H. MIO 2882 + 5.4d208 Driver _ Faderfox LV1 _ Akai MPK25 _ Logitec wheel mouse _______ PeacE will be the SOLution of LIVE