Make a programmed beat sound like real drum!

[nc2010]

I'm spending much time trying to make my programmed beats sound like real drums.

Something I find hard to achieve : little snare rolls - do you call this "flam" ?
See here at 0'13", 0'14", 0'19" and 0'20" and all along
https://youtu.be/-ed6UeDp1ek?t=10s

(Warning: this song is considered by many people as the track of the year for psyche rock / pop lovers and can be quite obsessing after many listenings)

---

When I try to create Snare flams like this :


it doesn't sound very natural.


My question:

What are your tips / Youtube tutorials about how to sound like real drums with programming or just with 8 pads (Akai LPD8 for example)?

[yur2die4]

Keep in mind that the snare makes a different timbral sound as you hit it harder and softer. So you might need a second snare sound for soft hits. Unless you are using a multi-sample drun sound.

Still, you can even process the fills/rolls differently if they are separate. Many artists will even have a pre-recorded roll that they trigger for rolls, instead of drawing one. You could have it on a same choke group so that when you trigger the regular snare it cuts off the roll.

[Division Monarchy]

Programmed drums will always have a different sound and feel. However to implement more natural sounding drums, use things like velocity, and tiny pitch and timbre changes, also don't quantize 100%. Also, make sure your using the right sounds. if you have to chop up live drums, then do that to.

[Stromkraft]

I'm spending much time trying to make my programmed beats sound like real drums.

Something I find hard to achieve : little snare rolls - do you call this "flam" ?
See here at 0'13", 0'14", 0'19" and 0'20" and all along
https://youtu.be/-ed6UeDp1ek?t=10s

(Warning: this song is considered by many people as the track of the year for psyche rock / pop lovers ;) and can be quite obsessing after many listenings)

---

When I try to create Snare flams like this :

it doesn't sound very natural.

My question:

What are your tips / Youtube tutorials about how to sound like real drums with programming or just with 8 pads (Akai LPD8 for example)?

Group Humanizer 1.3
Melda MDrummer Small
Alternating Samples Ableton Live 8 Sampler
How To Use Ableton Live Racks To Create Multi-Sampled Instruments, velocity switched multi-sampled instrument using Ableton Live
Sample randomizing in Sampler?

Currently it seems I'm going to be working with a real (MIDI) drummer for some projects. Yay!

[nc2010]

Thanks, yeah I know these techniques to alternate the playback of different samples for the same drum element (e.g. snare) but in practice I rarely achieve to produce such beautiful "flam" snare.

Anyone an example of a successful small such snare roll?

[overflow1]

When I play a flam on a real drum it's only two hits, one hit per stick close to the same time but far enough apart to get the desired flam sound.

Idk......it but it looks like your trying to achieve something a bit different perhaps.......

Not trying to criticize when I say this but being an actual drummer does help.

[Stromkraft]

Thanks, yeah I know these techniques to alternate the playback of different samples for the same drum element (e.g. snare) but in practice I rarely achieve to produce such beautiful "flam" snare.

Anyone an example of a successful small such snare roll? :)

You don't tell us what you've tried and why you think you failed. Do you experiment? A flam and a roll are 2 different things and of those flams should be a piece of cake to do convincingly. Rolls are probably quite hard on the other hand.

One reason why I use drum synths, sometimes layered with samples, is that any aspect of the sound can be modulated by velocity, LFO and other sources. That's one aspect of how drums come alive. The other is the playing. Recording MIDI input is often more convincing than programming, depending on skills.

[mareproduction]

I'm spending much time trying to make my programmed beats sound like real drums.

Something I find hard to achieve : little snare rolls - do you call this "flam" ?
See here at 0'13", 0'14", 0'19" and 0'20" and all along
https://youtu.be/-ed6UeDp1ek?t=10s

(Warning: this song is considered by many people as the track of the year for psyche rock / pop lovers and can be quite obsessing after many listenings)

---

When I try to create Snare flams like this :

it doesn't sound very natural.

My question:

What are your tips / Youtube tutorials about how to sound like real drums with programming or just with 8 pads (Akai LPD8 for example)?

Group Humanizer 1.3
Melda MDrummer Small
Alternating Samples Ableton Live 8 Sampler
How To Use Ableton Live Racks To Create Multi-Sampled Instruments, velocity switched multi-sampled instrument using Ableton Live
Sample randomizing in Sampler?

Currently it seems I'm going to be working with a real (MIDI) drummer for some projects. Yay!

Alternating Samples Ableton Live 8 Sampler is nice video. Thanks
If I have only one shot of sample (like hi hat) that I like, how can I make it that sample slight different that can be used as explained in the video?

[Stromkraft]

Alternating Samples Ableton Live 8 Sampler is nice video. Thanks
If I have only one shot of sample (like hi hat) that I like, how can I make it that sample slight different that can be used as explained in the video?

Especially with Hihats and snares I find that playing with velocity to decay settings are helpful. In Sampler this is done with a Volume Envelope that is not wide open so it can be modulated and working Time<Vel with a useful Time value.

Modulation per note, which is very easy to add with Push for example, allows you to automate a few ms seconds slower attack or the sample start (abusing the loop start) on some notes and changes the characteristics of the experience of the sound.

The best modification to Velocity switched or alternate sample sounds is hard to advice on as this depend on the sample content, but small modulated changes to a filter adds some life. Modulating filters is typically good for drums in most circumstances as long as it's done almost unnoticable (and with taste naturally).

This screen dump is from a velocity switched snare in the Live 9 Sampler with automation on the attack — pink dot —  (and release — red dot — though has no hearable effect here. Would probably work on a hihat though):

[H20nly]

*bookmark*

[Angstrom]

It's a super-deep topic "emulating real drums" and one that I have (for some reason) spent a lot of time on. I mean, I should have bought a practice kit in '95 rather than honing my editing skills to this degree, but here we are.

Very short version

Simulating snares: is a really complex business. Snares have a top and bottom head, the top head can be damped by successive strikes. So if we hit the head twice quickly with a stick, soft then harder, the second strike will reset the phase of the oscillation and in a way it will cut off the "release" of that top head's sound. So the top head has "choke" enabled .
However, there's also a resonant sealed air column attaching the struck head to the bottom head. The air column is like a spring and the bottom head will not be choked or have its phase reset by successive hits, the only thing damping the decay of that bottom head is the snares. As the bottom head moves it will be both damped and restruck by the snares. If the snares are tight the bottom head release time is short. So assuming a reasonable loose snare setup that bottom head is going to keep rattling on as the top head is choked. The bottom head will influence the air column and so the top head harmonics.
Oh, and depending on where you hit the top head you can control the harmonic response of that head.
Add to that complex system - the room, which is a connected system, but a whole other story.

Anyway, the shortest solution technically is : a very large sample set with MANY velocity layers and alternates. Additionally I'd ensure that the samples play their full length without artificial envelopes on volume or filter. There should be no choking, let the samples play their entire length.

I should say that this is all just my opinion based on years of pissing around, I am not a snare drum, I only play one on TV.

[mareproduction]

Alternating Samples Ableton Live 8 Sampler is nice video. Thanks
If I have only one shot of sample (like hi hat) that I like, how can I make it that sample slight different that can be used as explained in the video?

Especially with Hihats and snares I find that playing with velocity to decay settings are helpful. In Sampler this is done with a Volume Envelope that is not wide open so it can be modulated and working Time<Vel with a useful Time value.

Modulation per note, which is very easy to add with Push for example, allows you to automate a few ms seconds slower attack or the sample start (abusing the loop start) on some notes and changes the characteristics of the experience of the sound.

The best modification to Velocity switched or alternate sample sounds is hard to advice on as this depend on the sample content, but small modulated changes to a filter to adds some life. Modulating filters is typically good for drums as long as it's done almost unnoticable.

This from a velocity switched snare with automation on the attack (and release though has no hearable effect here. Would probably work on a hihat though):

Thanks!

[Stromkraft]

Very short version

Simulating snares: is a really complex business. Snares have a top and bottom head, the top head can be damped by successive strikes. So if we hit the head twice quickly with a stick, soft then harder, the second strike will reset the phase of the oscillation and in a way it will cut off the "release" of that top head's sound. So the top head has "choke" enabled ;-) .
However, there's also a resonant sealed air column attaching the struck head to the bottom head. The air column is like a spring and the bottom head will not be choked or have its phase reset by successive hits, the only thing damping the decay of that bottom head is the snares. As the bottom head moves it will be both damped and restruck by the snares. If the snares are tight the bottom head release time is short. So assuming a reasonable loose snare setup that bottom head is going to keep rattling on as the top head is choked. The bottom head will influence the air column and so the top head harmonics.
Oh, and depending on where you hit the top head you can control the harmonic response of that head.
Add to that complex system - the room, which is a connected system, but a whole other story.

Anyway, the shortest solution technically is : a very large sample set with MANY velocity layers and alternates. Additionally I'd ensure that the samples play their full length without artificial envelopes on volume or filter. There should be no choking, let the samples play their entire length.

This is all excellent advice IMO, but I'd like to point out that using envelopes to adapt the snare — or whatever the sound is — to the track can be very useful. For instance I have very rich snare samples that rings wonderfully, that I still can use when I need a shorter snare by adapting decay in my amplitude envelope.