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 Post subject: sharing Samples on external drive over Wlan
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:57 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:34 pm
Posts: 5
Hi,

i tried several ways to hook up an externall hard drive and share it over Wlan onto my Macbook without any luck.

- I tried directly on my modem, which works fine in Finder, almost immediately, but Ableton does not show it at all, or it takes several minutes, until i find the folders and samples
-I also tried sharing the disk with a Raspberry Pi Samba share, which also works fine in Finder, but hast the same result in Ableton, it either takes ages or does not show up at all.

I´m on a Macbook Pro on 10.11.6, using Ableton 9.7

Am i missing something, does any body have a hint what could be the problem?
Thanks, i really need to save some Space on my 10 Port Usb Port, that´s why i´m asking... :)


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 Post subject: Re: sharing Samples on external drive over Wlan
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 12:13 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Posts: 5485
wahookah wrote:
Hi,

i tried several ways to hook up an externall hard drive and share it over Wlan onto my Macbook without any luck.

- I tried directly on my modem, which works fine in Finder, almost immediately, but Ableton does not show it at all, or it takes several minutes, until i find the folders and samples
-I also tried sharing the disk with a Raspberry Pi Samba share, which also works fine in Finder, but hast the same result in Ableton, it either takes ages or does not show up at all.


Are you sure Live has indexed this external drive?

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 Post subject: Re: sharing Samples on external drive over Wlan
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 11:49 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:34 pm
Posts: 5
Hi, thank you for your answer,

there are several .asd files on the disk, but not for each sample. I used the disk before on Usb, which works fine.

Is there a way to force index the disk?

thank you


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 Post subject: Re: sharing Samples on external drive over Wlan
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:41 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:50 am
Posts: 3622
what you are trying to do just isn't workable unless you have a fast server and a fast network. i had a quick look around, and from what i can see Raspberry Pi's are appallingly slow as file servers. i guess the other device you are using as a network file server is also slow.

lots of small file accesses—which is what Live is doing when it indexes your disk, or when it is loading sample-based instruments—are the worst kind of traffic for network file sharing. combine that with a slow file server and network and you will be doing an awful lot of waiting around...

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 Post subject: Re: sharing Samples on external drive over Wlan
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 10:37 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Posts: 5485
fishmonkey wrote:
what you are trying to do just isn't workable unless you have a fast server and a fast network. i had a quick look around, and from what i can see Raspberry Pi's are appallingly slow as file servers. i guess the other device you are using as a network file server is also slow.


While that sounds like it must be involved at some level the OP also states this is not the case in Finder. If it's too slow, how can it be fast enough in Finder? It's the same server, disk and network after all.

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 Post subject: Re: sharing Samples on external drive over Wlan
PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 10:53 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:50 am
Posts: 3622
Stromkraft wrote:
fishmonkey wrote:
what you are trying to do just isn't workable unless you have a fast server and a fast network. i had a quick look around, and from what i can see Raspberry Pi's are appallingly slow as file servers. i guess the other device you are using as a network file server is also slow.


While that sounds like it must be involved at some level the OP also states this is not the case in Finder. If it's too slow, how can it be fast enough in Finder? It's the same server, disk and network after all.


because all the Finder is doing is showing the file and folder names, which doesn't involve much data being accessed on the shared drive.

that is very different to indexing all the contents of the drive, or streaming the samples.

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 Post subject: Re: sharing Samples on external drive over Wlan
PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:52 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:34 pm
Posts: 5
Hi, thank you for your thoughts.

I also tried to hook it up directly to my Modem, which enables me to play movies etc. so i guess the speed problem over wlan should not be the problem.

My question would be, if i could somehow force the indexing of the sample folders, while i´m hooked up on usb3.
And then once it´s indexed, i could use it via Wlan, because i only has to read the .wav and .asd files, which might be easier on the loading/processing times?


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 Post subject: Re: sharing Samples on external drive over Wlan
PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:19 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Posts: 5485
fishmonkey wrote:
because all the Finder is doing is showing the file and folder names, which doesn't involve much data being accessed on the shared drive.

that is very different to indexing all the contents of the drive, or streaming the samples.


I don't see how Spotlight wouldn't be indexing this drive. Likely Spotlight does this differently than Live though, or the Ableton indexer wouldn't be needed. Once a library is indexed the amount of data should be similar, no? I haven't investigated this though, so you may be right, though I don't recognize such differences from other software I've used that indexes drives.

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 Post subject: Re: sharing Samples on external drive over Wlan
PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:48 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Posts: 5485
wahookah wrote:
if i could somehow force the indexing of the sample folders, while i´m hooked up on usb3.
And then once it´s indexed, i could use it via Wlan


Maybe focus on getting a faster Wlan would be more rewarding? I'm building a backup system over Wifi now. I'll see what insights I might gain from that. In the past Wifi backups have been dreadful.

But newer Wifi standards have been increasing theoretical speeds up to 1 Gbps (802.11ac), which maybe can average at half that. That's really not that bad. Disturbances are somewhat common though, so using the right channel and signal strength is important.

Of course both the network cards involved and base station/router have to be able to use the same Wifi standard or the speeds will be different.

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 Post subject: Re: sharing Samples on external drive over Wlan
PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:30 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:34 pm
Posts: 5
Hi,

i´m on a 4 year old macbook and a pretty new Modem, that supports 5g connection, i guess the speed should be sufficient. and by indexing i did not mean spotlight, but creating the .asd files that Ableton needs to load samples.

any other recommendations?


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 Post subject: Re: sharing Samples on external drive over Wlan
PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:50 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:50 am
Posts: 3622
wahookah wrote:
I also tried to hook it up directly to my Modem, which enables me to play movies etc. so i guess the speed problem over wlan should not be the problem.


the indexing i'm referring to is Live's database indexing.

the fact that you can stream a compressed movie doesn't mean that the bandwidth is particularly high. also, streaming a movie involves sequential file transfers, which are much faster than random accesses when using a spinning hard drive.

the bottom line is that slow file servers (like the ones you mentioned earlier) are not good for sample storage and access over a wifi network, especially if you are using decent multisample libraries.

this utility only tests sequential bandwidth (for video production), but is worth running to get some idea about what bandwidth your file servers can handle:

https://itunes.apple.com/app/blackmagic ... 4550?mt=12

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