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 Post subject: Live's Groove Pool vs. PUSH's Swing............
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:01 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:35 am
Posts: 2737
Location: Cydonia on the 4th Planet
I fail to see the logic, if there is any, in these two distinctly different approaches. So let me see if I understand this correctly:

Ableton Live has a non destructive Groove Pool that cannot be accessed from Push. It can be made destructive if you "Commit", but still it absolutely cannot be accessed from PUSH 1 or 2.

PUSH has a destructive Swing that cannot be accessed from Live. It can be applied to a clip when working from PUSH, but it doesn't show up any where in the software, and it is completely destructive.

How could this be that state of things? Who at Ableton thought that this is even logical at all? When the first PUSH came out, I thought that this was something that would be ironed out eventually, but it continues, and I just can't see why.

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 Post subject: Re: Live's Groove Pool vs. PUSH's Swing............
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:22 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:46 pm
Posts: 17114
Location: Ableton Forum Administrator
I feel and relate to your pain on this issue.

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InnerPortalStudio.com - Professional Audio Mastering


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 Post subject: Re: Live's Groove Pool vs. PUSH's Swing............
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:44 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:35 am
Posts: 2737
Location: Cydonia on the 4th Planet
Tarekith wrote:
I feel and relate to your pain on this issue.


I thought it was just me. I can't see any logic in this approach at all, and it's been like this since PUSH mk1. It makes NO SENSE at ALL!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Live's Groove Pool vs. PUSH's Swing............
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:31 am 

Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 12:41 am
Posts: 1812
I also relate to this, Push should have access to the Groove pool and settings.


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 Post subject: Re: Live's Groove Pool vs. PUSH's Swing............
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:23 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:42 pm
Posts: 345
I agree, what's more annoying is that from the push the swing is applied to every division of the beat, which is cool for interesting grooves and I'm sure some people use it but for the most part it's un usable, performing live I find I'm constantly changing the swing. If I have a hard swing on the 16ths it is impossible to go to 8ths or triplets or even quarters, what is the point of not having control over this?


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 Post subject: Re: Live's Groove Pool vs. PUSH's Swing............
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:01 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:42 am
Posts: 822
May I add my support. Though I haven't an issue with this particular complaint, I can only share my dismay at some of the mysterious design/workflow omissions and implementations on Push. Feels like much is missing or not implemented fully. The display is under used.

I 'll stop there. (for now ;0)

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 Post subject: Re: Live's Groove Pool vs. PUSH's Swing............
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:47 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:35 am
Posts: 2737
Location: Cydonia on the 4th Planet
At one point in time, my main setup for Live was an MPD 32 and an APC 40 mk1. That setup still required a lot of mouse clicking and QWERTY keyboard use, and I used my Motif ES as a midi controller for playing melodies, but at least that setup was honest. I knew exactly what was going on and everything was straight forward.

My personal opinion of PUSH is that it has some kind of identity crisis. Is PUSH an Ableton Live controller, or is it it's own entity? I don't need another standalone entity. I need a dedicated Live controller. Ableton Live is already full featured software, and I just need to be able to access what Live can already do. Live has been around for a lot longer than PUSH, so I'm much more comfortable working in Live than I am with PUSH. As a matter of fact, I find that trying to incorporate PUSH in to my workflow often seems antagonistic where there should be harmony. I often feel like it's fighting me and keeping me from doing what I can already easily do with Live. I often find myself using Live, and never touching PUSH, and that shouldn't be the case. Since I've been using Live 10 beta, I often look up from what I'm doing and see that PUSH's display is actually displaying something I'm tweaking, and then I'll use it, but for the most part, I just work in Live.

I know that I am just an "Average Joe" user and forum member, but I really wish Ableton would take what I am saying to heart. When it comes to PUSH, you don't need to reinvent the wheel. Ableton is already great software on it's own. PUSH's primary focus should be to make using Live easier.

Rant over.
Just my $.02.

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 Post subject: Re: Live's Groove Pool vs. PUSH's Swing............
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:17 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:42 pm
Posts: 345
Okay changing the topic here a bit but I've been thinking since first getting the Push that it has an identity problem, it's okay......at doing alot of stuff but not really good at doing one thing which is what you need from a controller, especially in a live setting. I find I'm always pressing one to many buttons to get where I'm going, I still need 4 other controllers just to have everything I need at my finger tips. It would be great if Push was as flexible as Live itself, I know its easier said than done but there must be a way. To assign knobs and bottuns to custom menus etc..... I love my Push but sometimes I think I could've just bought a sequencer and drum pad.


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