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 Post subject: Re: Live 10 upgrade path
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:23 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Posts: 10986
Location: Seattle
login wrote:
So coming back to Live, it is not as expensive if you consider how many years the last two updates took, and the minor updates along the ride.

Live Suite is definitely more expensive than Logic, Reaper, Studio One, DP and Reason. Compared to those DAWs Live is not cheap by any means.
It's right in there with Pro Tools with their yearly update plan, and Cubase with their almost yearly upgrades, but cheaper initial costs.

It just depends on what you want out of a DAW though, not many DAWs have bothered to design their own controller like Ableton did with Push II, and for live playback of clips, uninterrupted audio etc. Live is still king. (Mainstage beats the pants off of it when it comes to switching FX racks and instruments on the fly though)

In that sense it's like complaining that cars aren't all the same price. To peoples credit though I would rather upgrades every two years at $150 than every four years at $300. $300 is a lot to shell out all at once for some improvement to what you already have, but at this point $150 is a night out on the town..


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 Post subject: Re: Live 10 upgrade path
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:01 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Posts: 14375
Machinesworking wrote:
It just depends on what you want out of a DAW though, not many DAWs have bothered to design their own controller like Ableton did with Push II.

That doesn't really impact the price of the application upgrades though eh?
Push is a separate product and has its own purchase price. I'm pretty sure is profitable in its own right. £600 for a controller!
No matter how fancy it is - I'm pretty sure there's a healthy profit margin in there, and I don't think it's integrated into the upgrade cost of the DAW application.

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 Post subject: Re: Live 10 upgrade path
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:03 am 

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Posts: 10986
Location: Seattle
Angstrom wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:
It just depends on what you want out of a DAW though, not many DAWs have bothered to design their own controller like Ableton did with Push II.

That doesn't really impact the price of the application upgrades though eh?
Push is a separate product and has its own purchase price. I'm pretty sure is profitable in its own right. £600 for a controller!
No matter how fancy it is - I'm pretty sure there's a healthy profit margin in there, and I don't think it's integrated into the upgrade cost of the DAW application.

Absolutely right, I'm just saying that the big advantages Live has over other DAWs are Session View, uninterrupted (for the most part) audio, a pretty painless UI UX experience, and dedicated hardware controllers. I actually don't see the point of using it if you're not getting some specific advantage that way.

Not being negative about it, just being flatly realistic. If you can handle a learning curve, don't need live performance features, aren't interested in Push, etc. then it's just expensive, and maybe doesn't have a few features you do want.


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 Post subject: Re: Live 10 upgrade path
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:51 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:15 pm
Posts: 15632
Location: The Wild West
Machinesworking wrote:
uninterrupted (for the most part) audio

:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Live 10 upgrade path
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:59 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Posts: 10986
Location: Seattle
H20nly wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:
uninterrupted (for the most part) audio

:lol:

Just being honest here! :x For me it's almost 100% uninterrupted, but you know how that cookie crumbles, there's always someone that somehow manages to get cracks and pops every time they look at a fader! :x


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 Post subject: Re: Live 10 upgrade path
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:03 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:15 pm
Posts: 15632
Location: The Wild West
i never really have had any issues that weren't user error or lack of knowledge on my part either.

i just imagined him typing it...

suddenly, he realizes that if he uses the term "uninterrupted audio" he might as well be loading the chum bucket for the sharks. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Live 10 upgrade path
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:24 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
Posts: 10986
Location: Seattle
H20nly wrote:
i never really have had any issues that weren't user error or lack of knowledge on my part either.

i just imagined him typing it...

suddenly, he realizes that if he uses the term "uninterrupted audio" he might as well be loading the chum bucket for the sharks. :lol:

Some people for sure have issues that go beyond Abletons ability to solve! :lol:

When I say almost 100% that's what I meant. I still occasionally can get a pop or click when doing something in Live, but mostly when really pushing it. Compare this to other DAWs and Live is king of the pack that way, but to insinuate it's 100% uninterrupted would be not true. Since in the past I've been critical of Live I have to be honest in general in my assessments or I feel like I would just be a hater or fanboy. So I'm trying not to be a hanboy or fater. :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: Live 10 upgrade path
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:48 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:15 pm
Posts: 15632
Location: The Wild West
Absolutely on board!!

there's an ever growing CPU thread where Stromkraft is currently in the process of trying to convince folks their issues are bogus because he can't get his head wrapped around them. i'm fairly certain those folks, among others, would take issue with the term "uninterrupted audio". but i know what you meant and why a disclaimer is important :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Live 10 upgrade path
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:25 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:51 pm
Posts: 485
Location: Hampshire Uk
Hi there :D

So help me out here,I'm an old fart,ok,ha,ha :lol:

I have Live 9 Suite,can I simply upgrade to Live 10,standard (not too bothered about MXL,or other sounds etc. Will my devices integrate with the new Live 10?
Or to bite the bullet and upgrade to Live 10 Suite :o

Bear in mind music making is a hobby for me (and you nice people,too I imagine),so having to think carefully about the prices etc

In the meantime while I patiently wait fro some kind member, to help me.I shall have a look over the videos for Live 10 see whats new etc

Cheers

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 Post subject: Re: Live 10 upgrade path
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:02 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:56 pm
Posts: 1
regalpierot wrote:
Add me to the list who I guess didn't pay attention, got countless EMails about buying Live 9 and then getting a free update to 10 but nothing at all registered with the discount of paying for the upgrade before the release...maybe because I've never seen that before and I own a lot of software.

Just logged in, checked the price to upgrade my Live 9 Suite to Live 10 suite and I honestly kept thinking there was an error on the site, like somehow it hadn't registered accordingly. $299 to upgrade my Live 9 Suite to Live 10 Suite. That's utterly pathetic pricing. :roll:

So you have Logic at $199 new. You have Reason with serious feature upgrades for free (VST support in 9.5) and a max of $129 for all upgrades from relatively previous versions. Really quite disappointed with Abelton, think a lot of folks will be sticking on 9.


I feel being penalised for already buying Suite 9 actually offensive. I wont be upgrading or supporting this program anymore as a matter of principle. Its a shame because I have actively supported Ableton since its birth in some pretty big arenas and ok I can afford the upgrade but I totally refuse to support this kind of thing. I bought suite because It seems good to buy into the whole package but i never expected to have to buy into it over and over again. I also no longer feel I can recommend this too my student age clients who don't want to find a sting like this around the corner


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 Post subject: Re: Live 10 upgrade path
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:03 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Posts: 6724
david.barker wrote:

I have Live 9 Suite,can I simply upgrade to Live 10,standard (not too bothered about MXL,or other sounds etc. Will my devices integrate with the new Live 10?


You can most likely. As long as you keep the 9 library around, also the Suite devices/instruments should work in 10 standard. You just won't get 10 Suite offerings.

I didn't exactly do it that way. I sold Suite 9 and got 9 Standard which involved an update to 10.

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Last edited by Stromkraft on Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Live 10 upgrade path
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:10 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:51 pm
Posts: 485
Location: Hampshire Uk
Stromkraft wrote:
david.barker wrote:

I have Live 9 Suite,can I simply upgrade to Live 10,standard (not too bothered about MXL,or other sounds etc. Will my devices integrate with the new Live 10?


You can most likley. As long as you keep the 9 library around, also the Suite devices/instruments should work in 10 standard. You just won't get 10 Suite offerings.

I didn't exactly do it that way. I sold Suite 9 and got 9 Standard which involved an update to 10.


Thanks Stromkraft,for your advice :D

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 Post subject: Re: Live 10 upgrade path
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:11 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:34 am
Posts: 6724
logictoolbox wrote:
I feel being penalised for already buying Suite 9 actually offensive. I wont be upgrading or supporting this program anymore as a matter of principle. Its a shame because I have actively supported Ableton since its birth in some pretty big arenas and ok I can afford the upgrade but I totally refuse to support this kind of thing. I bought suite because It seems good to buy into the whole package but i never expected to have to buy into it over and over again. I also no longer feel I can recommend this too my student age clients who don't want to find a sting like this around the corner


Why not get one of the DAWs that gives you lifetime major version updates instead? Which ones are those again? Bitwig? No… Logic? No… Pro Tools? No… Cubase? No… Digital Performer? No…

Help me out here…

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 Post subject: Re: Live 10 upgrade path
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:50 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:51 pm
Posts: 485
Location: Hampshire Uk
Stromkraft wrote:
logictoolbox wrote:
I feel being penalised for already buying Suite 9 actually offensive. I wont be upgrading or supporting this program anymore as a matter of principle. Its a shame because I have actively supported Ableton since its birth in some pretty big arenas and ok I can afford the upgrade but I totally refuse to support this kind of thing. I bought suite because It seems good to buy into the whole package but i never expected to have to buy into it over and over again. I also no longer feel I can recommend this too my student age clients who don't want to find a sting like this around the corner


Why not get one of the DAWs that gives you lifetime major version updates instead? Which ones are those again? Bitwig? No… Logic? No… Pro Tools? No… Cubase? No… Digital Performer? No…

Help me out here…


FL,he,he :D

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 Post subject: Re: Live 10 upgrade path
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:09 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:15 pm
Posts: 15632
Location: The Wild West
FL gives you the illusion of lifetime updates but it's to the point [now] where everything is an add-on. so yeah, the base application is a one time purchase... but it's like a pay-to-play "free" video game on your phone where your mileage is limited using the vanilla app. plus, the default sounds library is pretty horrible.

Audacity on the other hand, now there's a good pricing model. :P


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