Why doesn't freezing a track eliminate latency?

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SvenH
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Why doesn't freezing a track eliminate latency?

Post by SvenH » Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:27 am

Today, I wanted to record a synth bass live into a set that already contains a couple of tracks. One of the recorded tracks contains a lot of processing that also gives a lot of latency. Since this gives too much latency for recording my bass live, I froze the heavily processed track. I was unpleasantly surprised, however, to find out that freezing the track did not remove the latency - to get rid of the latency, I would also have to flatten the track!

Is it supposed to be like this? Wouldn't it be possible and logical to let a frozen track behave exactly like recorded audio (with the added benefit of being able to unfreeze it and edit again if needed)?

What should I do if I need to reduce latency for live recording of new tracks, but want to keep all source material editable?

[jur]
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Re: Why doesn't freezing a track eliminate latency?

Post by [jur] » Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:23 pm

Since a frozen track can be be unfrozen, the latency is kept so you don't end up with sudden time shifting. That sure is a debatable design choice, but...
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SvenH
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Re: Why doesn't freezing a track eliminate latency?

Post by SvenH » Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:11 pm

[jur] wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 3:23 pm
Since a frozen track can be be unfrozen, the latency is kept so you don't end up with sudden time shifting. That sure is a debatable design choice, but...
OK, I guess that may be a valid reason sometimes... BUT I wish there was a setting to change this behavior!

Thanks for your reply!

sambaji
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Re: Why doesn't freezing a track eliminate latency?

Post by sambaji » Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:48 am

It would be great to be able to freeze tracks to eliminate latency. I would also like preference to ignore the latency of disabled plugins. There are plugins that I would use in the tracking process but I don't because there is no way to temporarily eliminate their latency by disabling them while recording.

[jur]
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Re: Why doesn't freezing a track eliminate latency?

Post by [jur] » Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:16 am

sambaji wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:48 am
I would also like preference to ignore the latency of disabled plugins. There are plugins that I would use in the tracking process but I don't because there is no way to temporarily eliminate their latency by disabling them while recording.
If it was the case then you wouldn't be able to turn a device on/off on the fly without getting issues like clicks and time shifting...
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lunabass
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Re: Why doesn't freezing a track eliminate latency?

Post by lunabass » Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:33 am

SvenH wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:27 am
...freezing the track did not remove the latency - to get rid of the latency, I would also have to flatten the track!
This has always bugged me too. My work around’s are both quite clunky.

1. Save the offending track into the user library and then freeze and flatten. You can import back into the set once you’ve finished recording.
2. Save As a new set, freeze and flatten the offending tracks, record my new parts, then import the new parts into the original set.
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SvenH
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Re: Why doesn't freezing a track eliminate latency?

Post by SvenH » Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:40 am

lunabass wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:33 am
SvenH wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:27 am
...freezing the track did not remove the latency - to get rid of the latency, I would also have to flatten the track!
This has always bugged me too. My work around’s are both quite clunky.

1. Save the offending track into the user library and then freeze and flatten. You can import back into the set once you’ve finished recording.
2. Save As a new set, freeze and flatten the offending tracks, record my new parts, then import the new parts into the original set.
Probably the best solutions for now - thanks for sharing your workarounds!

frabo
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Re: Why doesn't freezing a track eliminate latency?

Post by frabo » Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:59 am

And what happened, if you just drag and drop (or even copy..) the audio from the freezed track to a new audio track ?
Is the latency rendered with the file ?

SvenH
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Re: Why doesn't freezing a track eliminate latency?

Post by SvenH » Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:31 pm

frabo wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:59 am
And what happened, if you just drag and drop (or even copy..) the audio from the freezed track to a new audio track ?
Is the latency rendered with the file ?
No, the latency is not rendered with the file - it is compensated for automatically.

Julia123
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Re: Why doesn't freezing a track eliminate latency?

Post by Julia123 » Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:56 pm

I use another DAW (Digital Performer) for tracking live performance audio unless it is very early in a new project with no latency yet and room for a small buffer. I can leave both Ableton and the other DAW open at the same time. I end up exporting a stereo wav of where I am currently at in the Ableton project to drag into the other DAW's fresh new project as a guide where I can record live vocals/instruments free of any latency, freezing, or dealing with a mess, to my hearts content. I then drag the newly recorded tracks back into Ableton when I have completed the live recording process. Just another option for those who get frustrated with tracking later in a project.
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jlgrimes
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Re: Why doesn't freezing a track eliminate latency?

Post by jlgrimes » Sun Jun 20, 2021 9:15 pm

SvenH wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:27 am
Today, I wanted to record a synth bass live into a set that already contains a couple of tracks. One of the recorded tracks contains a lot of processing that also gives a lot of latency. Since this gives too much latency for recording my bass live, I froze the heavily processed track. I was unpleasantly surprised, however, to find out that freezing the track did not remove the latency - to get rid of the latency, I would also have to flatten the track!

Is it supposed to be like this? Wouldn't it be possible and logical to let a frozen track behave exactly like recorded audio (with the added benefit of being able to unfreeze it and edit again if needed)?

What should I do if I need to reduce latency for live recording of new tracks, but want to keep all source material editable?
It might help to create a bounced out stem version of your project and use flattened audio.

It takes a little time but should free up slot of heavy processing. Also it takes some restraint to keep from using latency heavy audio effects, maybe wait until mastering but yes it can sometimes be unavoidable depending on what you are doing. But learn your plugins. Many have a low latency mode or there are low/no latency substitutes many times the quality isn't even noticeable and usually sufficient for writing.

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