Ableton 9: keep it or upgrade to 11?

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
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AdmiralRed
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:34 am

Ableton 9: keep it or upgrade to 11?

Post by AdmiralRed » Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:54 pm

Hello all,

I have been working on Ableton 9 for a few years now and since I am about to change my computer and would like to "start fresh", I am wondering if it's worth upgrading to Ableton 11 as well.

On the one hand, all I know is Ableton 9 and I am pretty happy with it, so I don't really miss features from 10 or 11 that I don't really know about yet. On top of this, reviews I have read about the performance management of Ableton 11, especially CPU usage range from "bad" to "disastrous" and I don't want to pay more for something that will limit me in my work / freeze / glitch more than a version that I already paid for years ago.
On the other hand, Ableton 9 is getting old and there are probably many cool features that would help me improve my workflow and build better habits.

I was thinking of maybe just upgrading to Ableton 10... but apparently I cannot. I saw in the shop that I can upgrade to Ableton 11 Suite for 200$ but upgrading to Ableton 10 doesn't seem to be an option. It would make sense and be fine if Ableton 11 was stable but it's a bit frustrating if the current version is half baked and poorly optimized.

Bottomline, I'm open to external feedback from people who actually know the difference between Ableton 9 and 11 first-hand and have maybe been in this situation before. Thanks in advance and have a good day! :)

jestermgee
Posts: 4500
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:38 am

Re: Ableton 9: keep it or upgrade to 11?

Post by jestermgee » Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:57 pm

Well there is the "if it aint broke don't fix it" approach. I assume you are on Windows because Mac users don't have the luxury of using older versions of things on newer systems most of the time, kind of forced to update :twisted:
AdmiralRed wrote:
Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:54 pm
I don't really miss features from 10 or 11 that I don't really know about yet.
Of course you probably wouldn't know how useful a feature is or not until you use it.

Been a while since I used L9 but some things that have been an improvement for me has been:

- Grouping of Grouped instruments = Makes tidy work of a project both visually and also for effects processing. Cannot do without.
- Audio to MIDI = Makes the process of writing a melody fun and interesting
- Comping = Would have loved this 12 years ago when I was actively recording vocals and had to use Cubase but even for playing keyboard parts this has been useful to just keep going and not have to stop, delete, record again.
- VST3 = Not a huge deal for me as almost everything I use is VST2 still but pretty sure this wasn't available in L9
- Linked Editing = How sweet this feature is allowing editing of multiple clips in a single window, very useful if you are like me and rely more on drawing in a melody sometimes than playing
- Updated effects = Some of the updates over the years to things like EQ8 and Compressor were very nice. I think even the reverb got an update but been years since I used a Live reverb.
- 16 Macros = This change may just make me use macros again. Because I have Push and can access most parameters in each device I haven't used Macros much as 8 was always far too limiting and nesting racks in racks was a mess but 16 is about where i'm happy for minimum usability to get the main controls of a track at a quick access point so being able to now flip through 2 pages of handy controls quickly from Push is great.

Not sure if you have Push but the extra features and refinements are very handy, more feedback on the screen and better access to things.

In regards to "reviews" of people having issues, it's rare people come to the forums reviewing things with positivity, most people have an issue and will just bitch about where from my experience much of the time it is some user error, misconfiguration or unrealistic expectations. Can never say you would not have some issues but can say that myself and almost all the experienced "higher level" guys round here have never noted any issues out of the norm and i have no issues with any of my older projects playing. Issues I do have are the fact my system is loaded with all kinds of software these days and needs a full refresh soon but take average joe users complaints about CPU performance issues and what not with a pinch of salt. Will always be some that have an issue but I never even bother to take note if the report doesn't cover all the details of their setup and problem, mostly it's a case of "just upgraded to L11 and CPU usage is screwed... like WTF in 2021???????"

End of the day it's your money and your decision if it is worth it but computers and software we just take a gamble with sometimes. I spent over $2K on fu%$ing Vegas over the years since when it was owned by Sony but the new company is useless with their support... completely useless and I have had non stop crashes and freezes editing basic footage, never an issue in v12 which I can occasionally fix with a heap of under hood changes but after a 1 month wait for assistance I decided to just chuck it in and switched to Adobe Premier and never looked back.

AdmiralRed
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:34 am

Re: Ableton 9: keep it or upgrade to 11?

Post by AdmiralRed » Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:05 am

Thanks a lot for taking the time to share your insight in such great details, really appreciated (and sorry about your Vegas :lol: ). And some of these new features could really help me...!
You make a good point about people being more vocal when there are issues than when things are working all fine. I was actually wondering if there is some "magnifying glass" effect making the CPU issue blown out of proportion or if it's indeed a significant issue.

What still worries me is that on Ableton 9 I really never had any issues with CPU whatsoever, despite having project with dozens of tracks and many VST running in parallel (it rarely goes beyond 30%, and usually is around 10-15%). And beside the loud complainers, there seems to be a decent amount of fair/objective people also saying that it is still objectively worse than Ableton 10 and not really stable with no clear roadmap about when it will be addressed (I checked reddit & some Youtube videos to expand a bit my research).

I will invesitgate the possibility to upgrade to Ableton 10 (impossible through the shop but I read a testimony of someone saying that he did it by contacting the Ableton support service directly). So two options for me :
- I stay on Ableton 9 for the time being waiting for significant updates / patches to be released by Ableton team and then I move to L11
- I upgrade to Ableton 10 as a stepping stone to L11 but only if there will be a way to pay for the upgrade once (I don't want to pay 200$ for L9>L10 and 200$ for L10>L11 in a few months when it is stable) ; will check if that is possible

And yeah you got it right, I'm working on Windows :)

Mister Natural
Posts: 275
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: michigan

Re: Ableton 9: keep it or upgrade to 11?

Post by Mister Natural » Wed Jun 30, 2021 10:29 pm

AdmiralRed wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:05 am
...things are working all fine. I was actually wondering if there is some "magnifying glass" ...
>exactly right Admiral - those whose LIVE(v.whatever) simply just work on their computer are not the ones writing posts on Reddit or on random forums. I'm also on a WIN machine and have had almost zero performance issues since v.6 - lucky, I guess . . .
AdmiralRed wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 8:05 am
- I stay on Ableton 9 for the time being waiting for significant updates / patches to be released by Ableton team and then I move to L11
- I upgrade to Ableton 10 as a stepping stone to L11 but only if there will be a way to pay for the upgrade once (I don't want to pay 200$ for L9>L10 and 200$ for L10>L11 in a few months when it is stable) ; will check if that is possible
>choices here on your own but I think the Hybrid reverb alone(& the upgraded DrumRack) is worth the upgrade to v.11 asap
best of luck !
an expert only on what it feels like to be me
& you are who you google
#smile

cskracer
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:53 am
Location: Perth, Australia

Re: Ableton 9: keep it or upgrade to 11?

Post by cskracer » Thu Jul 01, 2021 12:22 am

I've never looked, but do Ableton offer a trial of Suite? Or is it only Lite?

In any case the smart thing to do would be to install the trial of 11 on your machine and run it for whatever the trial period is and see if you run into any issues. Not sure why I've never thought of that for myself, given I work in software and our clients run user acceptance tests all the time on our new builds...

It's wise not to write off any information about potential problems, just because they are poorly written or are provided with no technical detail. Most often people who are writing posts like that, are frustrated and emotional because they've been fighting an issue for a while before posting. That doesn't mean there isn't an issue.

The reports about CPU usage in 11 were largely an own goal by Ableton though. The change in behaviour of the CPU meter created a lot of confusion, even amongst users who'd been using Live for many years.

Having said all that I'm another one with no issues. And in the spirit of providing some technical detail to go with it, my config is - AMD3900X, Gigabyte Auros Pro X570 MB, 64GB RAM, AMD 5700XT, 2 x ADATA SX8200 1TB M2 SSDs on Windows 10 Pro 19042.1052, Focusrite 18i20 Gen 3 interface, Push 2 and a number of outboard synths and drum machines.

I've personally found Live 11 to be much more stable than 9 or 10. Doesn't necessarily mean it will be for you though! That's the "beauty" of the wild west of endless configs of PC hardware.

AdmiralRed
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:34 am

Re: Ableton 9: keep it or upgrade to 11?

Post by AdmiralRed » Mon Jul 05, 2021 4:41 am

Thank you guys for your feedback, very interesting. Based on all I read there will definitely be a bit of a leap of faith and I think I will postpone it a bit. My plan is to upgrade from 9 to 10 first this month, and I'll move to 11 a few months down the road.
There is no rush (been working on L9 for the last 7 years), it will give me an opportunity to get familiar first with the upgrades of the version 10, and hopefully by the time I move to 11 the Ableton team will have managed to patch some issues.

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