Sitting on the Fence - Push or Maschine

[yur2die4]

I need more time. But, my early verdict is:

It's a toss up.

Push is really fun and more solid than any controller I've ever had. Sits very low profile. In a beautiful way.

But.

Each controller has strengths. I might go as far as to say that Maschine is slightly 'snappier'. And that one factor can contribute a lot to performance in live situations.

I need more time, and it Could be my computer but I doubt it.

They are both beautiful devices . I'm happy to own both haha

[panten]

yur2die4, damn so you have your shiny new Push already. I received a call from my store today telling me it's ready to be picked up but I'm 500 miles away visiting family in Scotland aargh! I only get to see them once a year now so this plastic controller can wait

If you don't mind; in what way is Maschine snappier? Are you talking about latency or something or is it workflow?


@humnumb. I really disagree and think that the 8x8 is a major selling point to Push.
1. In instrument mode you have more octaves to play over
2. In drum rack mode you have instant access to 16 drum pads + step sequencing + real-time looped bar selection/juggling
3. Session mode 8x8 grid of clip slot selections.

I don't think that can be so flippantly dismissed considering how boxed in you are on the 4x4 with Maschine or to compensate for it's lack of surface with rather unstable ipad apps. Touchable was so crashy as to be almost unusable on my ipad 3.

I personally dislike using the touch screen for this type of control and much prefer more tactile responsive pads and knobs. The same can be said for replacing the Push scales mode with an ipad app. You just won't get the same feedback from a flat glass screen as you would with lovely rubbery buttons . I thought most people would get that.

[yur2die4]

Well. To be honest, part of this 'snappiness' might just be my brain getting accustomed to things

Browsing sounds in Maschine does seem slightly easier. But they are stuck inside Maschine, which works great IN Maschine, and they all load pretty smoothly.

Live's navigation could really use some sprucing up. I actually am more accustomed to loading defaults than presets, and this makes me keep wanting to load presets. I Know I can, and how To load defaults. I'm remembering that I need to update my defaults in Live 9.

I could really ramble a lot here quite honestly.

It is just the feel of little things. How the knobs work even. Automating quick fades isn't really going to happen. But that's what faders are for

I've also grown quite accustomed to 'keyboarding' via Maschine. But this is opening my options and I find keyboarding in Push to be fun, inspiring, engaging. I will probably still crave Maschine/Launchpad style melody playing also though (I'm nuts haha).

Most of all, I know everyone says it. And you will shit your pants when you unpack this thing. It is so beautiful and rugged. The ruggedness also applies to the buttons. I don't have a 100% opinion on the buttons and pads.
I'm pretty sure I am slowly falling in love with them (sorry, got distracted, the pads beckoned for me!)

And Push wins hands down for controlling parameters. Once you rack your stuff. The screen is quite vivid.

I must admit, I am comparing to a very early (has the F1 as F2 buttons) Maschine.

Ahhh!!! I love this thing though.

-end constant stream of rambling

[panten]

Brilliant post.
Keep it coming man, appreciate the good honest stream of consciousness babbling. One man's descent into madness

[humnumb]

rather unstable ipad apps.

Haven't experienced anything unstable on my end with iPad apps.

I personally dislike using the touch screen for this type of control and much prefer more tactile responsive pads and knobs.

I prefer the iPad controller apps for launching session view clips where you can actually see the name of each clip you're triggering. And I still have Maschine for tactile responsive pads and knobs.

[panten]

Haven't experienced anything unstable on my end with iPad apps.

lucky you.

And I still have Maschine for tactile responsibe pads and knobs.

I was referring to the difference between a slippery touch screen and a hardware controller for the same purposes. The main problem I have with touch screens are that you must hover and tap as opposed to being able to rest your fingers on the button or knob before applying pressure or torque. Think of the difference between touch typing on a traditional keyboard and tap typing on an ipad screen keyboard. They're polar opposites in terms of feedback.

Push does a great job of consolidating this stuff and eliminates the need for a more untidy setup.

[humnumb]

The screen is quite vivid.

I must admit, I am comparing to a very early (has the F1 as F2 buttons) Maschine.

I had one of those too. Wait til you check out the high contrast displays on Maschine MKII. It blows the original Maschine's displays out of the water. They've been inverted with light blue text on a darker blue background and aside from looking sleeker and crisper they have a much higher viewing angle and way better visibility in low-light conditions. The difference is night and day and so are the pads. So buttery smooth and way more sensitive (and you know how sensitive Maschine's pads are).

[3dot...]

pretty surprised that Novation hadn't come up with something yet...
Launchpad "256" would've done it for me...

I think people are going all fanboi on both sides...
"whichever rocks your boat" is the correct answer..

Maschine is a new take on an older format.. done very well according to many people(including me)
while push is the most elaborate control script + hardware.. to be developed for Live itself a modern and elegant music making app imo
one doesn't come instead of the other..
it's like a discussion whether a pan flute is better than a harmonica

I can say this though..quite objectively
Mascine is PERFECT and ONLY match for it's software..
both were designed to match.. and this gives it more of an 'instrument feel'
Live can host numerous 'control surfaces' (Mascine included) and has an API for interfacing MIDI with it's parameters... so it is a lot more abstract.. and gives you the ability to build elaborate setups which can cover most anyones needs..
when you throw m4l in the mix.. it can even get crazier..

Push can be emulated with APC or Launchpad (minus touchstrip and aftertouch)
the current push script implementation is indeed very cool.. but there's a lot to do there still...
it is definitely not the perfect script for Live.. for many reasons
only the best officially developed so far..and it's still a work in progress..

both can work well together..

[onestep]

I think people are going all fanboi on both sides...
"whichever rocks your boat" is the correct answer..

Maschine is a new take on an older format.. done very well according to many people(including me)
while push is the most elaborate control script + hardware.. to be developed for Live itself a modern and elegant music making app imo
one doesn't come instead of the other..
it's like a discussion whether a pan flute is better than a harmonica

I can say this though..quite objectively
Mascine is PERFECT and ONLY match for it's software..
both were designed to match.. and this gives it more of an 'instrument feel'
Live can host numerous 'control surfaces' (Mascine included) and has an API for interfacing MIDI with it's parameters... so it is a lot more abstract.. and gives you the ability to build elaborate setups which can cover most anyones needs..
when you throw m4l in the mix.. it can even get crazier..

Push can be emulated with APC or Launchpad (minus touchstrip and aftertouch)
the current push script implementation is indeed very cool.. but there's a lot to do there still...
it is definitely not the perfect script for Live.. for many reasons
only the best officially developed so far..and it's still a work in progress..

both can work well together..

Very well put.

[Tone Deft]

indeed. props 3dot...

[deva]

yur2die4, damn so you have your shiny new Push already. I received a call from my store today telling me it's ready to be picked up but I'm 500 miles away visiting family in Scotland aargh! I only get to see them once a year now so this plastic controller can wait

If you don't mind; in what way is Maschine snappier? Are you talking about latency or something or is it workflow?


@humnumb. I really disagree and think that the 8x8 is a major selling point to Push.
1. In instrument mode you have more octaves to play over
2. In drum rack mode you have instant access to 16 drum pads + step sequencing + real-time looped bar selection/juggling
3. Session mode 8x8 grid of clip slot selections.

I don't think that can be so flippantly dismissed considering how boxed in you are on the 4x4 with Maschine or to compensate for it's lack of surface with rather unstable ipad apps. Touchable was so crashy as to be almost unusable on my ipad 3.

I personally dislike using the touch screen for this type of control and much prefer more tactile responsive pads and knobs. The same can be said for replacing the Push scales mode with an ipad app. You just won't get the same feedback from a flat glass screen as you would with lovely rubbery buttons . I thought most people would get that.

I used an iPad for a couple months and didn't particularly like it. The touch screen is finicky and it was too easy to err. Make the controls larger then there is not that much room on it. Also, I found timing troublesome.

Not to mention the cost of the iPad which added to the cost of Maschine starts to get up there! And an iPad and a Maschine still does not address the advantage of Push being a 64 notes velocity and aftertouch sensitive controller. More than the cost, I like the simplicity of having fewer devices, less software, less to remember.

These are all useful tools, but Push has a feature set I like. The 64 pads are important but it also has the displays (unlike the Launchpad). It is not as if Push is something really new, but it is a new set of particular features which fill a niche that nothing else quite does. I have one on order but am glad it is not shipping for a good while. That way all the people getting them now can be the test subjects.

[blinkeye]

I can say this though..quite objectively
Mascine is PERFECT and ONLY match for it's software..
both were designed to match.. and this gives it more of an 'instrument feel'

Yup. There's never been quite anything like it before where the computer software and the hardware controller become one with each other to the extent that Maschine does and gives it that "hardware instrument feel". Such a concept is not new but the way NI executed it is what makes it such a game changer. It's because Maschine is all about the software and the hardware having been designed together from the ground up to be whole and inseparable from each other.

Push, in comparison, was more of an afterthought solution tacked on to an already existing software that's been long established. And Live is more of a proper mouse-centric DAW with a very deep and heavy feature set and much more open-ended possibilities for configuring all sorts of crazy elaborate setups, especially if you have M4L. I'm sure there will be a bunch hacks and scripts for Push cobbled together in no time for those who love to tinker with geeky toys.

There's nothing "wrong" with either approach of course and neither is superior/inferior over the other but the difference is very clear. There's just no need for a fanboy war though. You can choose one over the other, use both together, or use neither. /shrug

[deva]

I can say this though..quite objectively
Mascine is PERFECT and ONLY match for it's software..
both were designed to match.. and this gives it more of an 'instrument feel'

Yup. There's never been quite anything like it before where the computer software and the hardware controller become one with each other to the extent that Maschine does and gives it that "hardware instrument feel". Such a concept is not new but the way NI executed it is what makes it such a game changer. It's because Maschine is all about the software and the hardware having been designed together from the ground up to be whole and inseparable from each other.

Push, in comparison, was more of an afterthought solution tacked on to an already existing software that's been long established. And Live is more of a proper mouse-centric DAW with a very deep and heavy feature set and much more open-ended possibilities for configuring all sorts of crazy elaborate setups, especially if you have M4L. I'm sure there will be a bunch hacks and scripts for Push cobbled together in no time for those who love to tinker with geeky toys.

There's nothing "wrong" with either approach of course and neither is superior/inferior over the other but the difference is very clear. There's just no need for a fanboy war though. You can choose one over the other, use both together, or use neither. /shrug

Game changer? Hardly... There are whole areas of music creation where Maschine is not even a footnote. And there are lots of people who prefer hardware who don't like it because it is tethered to the computer. And lots of people have purchased, used it, then sold it cause it did not suit them. Maschine is one more useful capable product in a wide range of products from hardware beatboxes to hardware workstations to software DAW's.

The constant Maschine hyperbole is pushy propaganda.

"Maschine is all about the software and the hardware having been designed together from the ground up to be whole and inseparable from each other"

If they are so inseparable then why are some touting it as a fine controller for Live? I guess it is not that 'whole and inseparable' is it... The way some people talk about it reminds me of the literature from the religious types who come to the front door.

[cmreal04]

Maschine has turned out to be agreat controller for me but using it in stand alone started to change my music. Don't have time to dig into specifics....

[djadonis206]

Either do it or don't.