(OT) STFU about tax increases

beats me · Post by **beats me** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:27 am

forge wrote:well, the thing I think you all don't seem to realise is that in a round about kind of way you already pya way LESS taxes than everyone else - I'm not talking about the obvious taxes you're aware of, but under the surface

for example - a friend had a girl from Florida staying with them recently who was telling us that a 6 pack of Stella Artois (import) beer was $4.49US which at the moment is about $7 AUD - to buy the same 6 pack here you're looking at up to $20 AUD - that isn't GST which everyone is aware of because that's still a flat 10% - thats the government excise placed on Liquor

the other day I got an email obviously originating from the US talking about how people use Listerine to keep away mosquitoes and they were saying it was $1-89 from best buy or whatever - it's 3-5 times that price here

they are just two small examples, before we even get on to things like petrol..etc

there are so many tiers of taxation in existence most of us are not aware of them all I think, but it's there and I think in a lot of ways Americans seem to have it better there

the caveat is that you have no health care or welfare system - so I see it that we have to pay more for a lot of items in every day life, but what we get for it is a system that looks after it's people

it's true, if you want a society that is nice to live in where you know you will get help if you need it, and not completely geared towards greed of the individual, then you do have to pay for it

but I just wouldn't want to live somewhere where people are left to die because they cant afford medical insurance

vote Obama for fucks sake

Amen brother and that is exactly what I am talking about. There's all this talk about the "American dream" which makes it sound like we are all united but what it really comes down to is what a self serving a-hole you are. Soon as somebody has to pay up on a individual basis they are all kinds of pissed off and could care fuck all about the country.

doc holiday · Post by **doc holiday** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:34 pm

forge, that $20 dollar 6 pack is unreal.

the AU=USA dollar was 1=1 in the spring

i doubt your friend paid 4.50, prolly 8.00 for the import 6er.

but your 20$ 6 pack is VB even

the one thing i missed over there was some good small batch beer.

I had the james squire ipa, it was almost there...

forge · Post by **forge** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:56 pm

doc holiday wrote: the AU=USA dollar was 1=1 in the spring
.

now it's like 60c

doc holiday · Post by **doc holiday** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:59 pm

wow, things change fast. thats crazy. at 1=1 it made things really spendy. my trip would have been totally different

Donnie · Post by **Donnie** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:38 pm

forge wrote:well, the thing I think you all don't seem to realise is that in a round about kind of way you already pya way LESS taxes than everyone else - I'm not talking about the obvious taxes you're aware of, but under the surface

for example - a friend had a girl from Florida staying with them recently who was telling us that a 6 pack of Stella Artois (import) beer was $4.49US which at the moment is about $7 AUD - to buy the same 6 pack here you're looking at up to $20 AUD - that isn't GST which everyone is aware of because that's still a flat 10% - thats the government excise placed on Liquor

the other day I got an email obviously originating from the US talking about how people use Listerine to keep away mosquitoes and they were saying it was $1-89 from best buy or whatever - it's 3-5 times that price here

they are just two small examples, before we even get on to things like petrol..etc

there are so many tiers of taxation in existence most of us are not aware of them all I think, but it's there and I think in a lot of ways Americans seem to have it better there

Because since the beginning of America a major premise has been NOT to pay high taxes.

the caveat is that you have no health care or welfare system - so I see it that we have to pay more for a lot of items in every day life, but what we get for it is a system that looks after it's people

it's true, if you want a society that is nice to live in where you know you will get help if you need it, and not completely geared towards greed of the individual, then you do have to pay for it

Yet on the flipside, in some places you cant get the vital treatments you need without getting in a waiting line. Upsides/downsides.

don't want to live somewhere where people are left to die because they cant afford medical insurance

...which doesn't really matter in America where an emergency room cant turn you down if its a life or death situation. Insurance or not.

Im not voting McCain, but I dont think Obama will deliver on most of the stuff he wishes he could do. Just to start, I dont think a more socialized healthcare system would work in America, people are too fat and unhealthy here and like the freedom to be so. Any type of universal health care system will become a huge financial burden in this county, our way of life just isnt made for it. Plus, Americans like to work the system for any personal advantage possible. It would get exploited, hard, and by everyone rich or poor.

Personally, I wouldn't mind living somewhere else but that's just because my mindset doesn't coincide with the American mindset overall. Never has. However at the same time im not going to, for one second, confuse myself into thinking that this country is something its not. It is a very independent, sink or swim, any man can do whatever he wants if he works hard enough place. It is definitely not a help everyone out and spread the wealth place. People are not like that, they expect you to rise up on your own accord. Im not saying people don't ever help each other out, but overall the mindset revolves around independence...which has become very self orientated over time but it is what it is.

glamourboy · Post by **glamourboy** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:03 pm

Im not voting McCain, but I dont think Obama will deliver on most of the stuff he wishes he could do. Just to start, I dont think a more socialized healthcare system would work in America, people are too fat and unhealthy here and like the freedom to be so. Any type of universal health care system will become a huge financial burden in this county, our way of life just isnt made for it.

kind of a bleek view on things. in my opinion a good health care system includes education on how to live healthy. and about the freedom to be fat and unhealthy, i think that's total bs. in a society where big business are allowed to brainwash and misinform and have great influence on education, freedom is an illusion. whoops, guess i'm the one with a dark view

Donnie · Post by **Donnie** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 5:21 pm

glamourboy wrote: kind of a bleek view on things.

Just a realistic one imo. If I wanted to be dark I could have said much worse.

in my opinion a good health care system includes education on how to live healthy.

You can lead a horse to water...

Americans are not oblivious to what a healthy lifestyle is. Choosing to make the necessary adjustments is a COMPLETELY different story.

and about the freedom to be fat and unhealthy, i think that's total bs. in a society where big business are allowed to brainwash and misinform and have great influence on education, freedom is an illusion. whoops, guess i'm the one with a dark view

America = $$$$. How many people move here for our enriching family values and cultural aspects? They move here for simple freedoms and/or the ability to make money. As a people, we have empowered these large corporations and put them up on pedestals for years. It is a problem that goes way back, and goes far beyond the "Bush administration" or some other scapegoat.

...and sure freedom is an illusion but many are comfortable in that illusion. Some just prefer the blue pill becasue the red pill isnt so smooth going down.

Moody · Post by **Moody** » Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:31 pm

Stella for $4.49 a sixer? What decade was this? Seriously, Stella has never been that cheap in the last decade. Maybe Busch but even that is closer to $5 now. Anyways...

Lead me to the damn $4.49 Stellas and I will stop bitching!

dj superflat · Post by **dj superflat** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:52 am

50% is way easy to reach in the US, depending on what state and local taxes you're paying, and whether you're self-employed and/or an employer, in which case you pay both sides of the SS.

as for things being cheaper in the US, been that way forever, much of that is the size of the market. e.g., they don't sell many strats in spain, so there aren't many guitar shops, they have limited selection, and thus have to make real money off everything they sell. in the US, they make it up on volume (or not (love the joke about "we lose money on every sale, but make it up on volume")).

as for people moving here, um, it's not just the money. the ability to (e.g.) practice your religion w/o persecution? priceless. the ability to blog/write/say anything you want? priceless. etc.

seriously, have you all been to, e.g., europe? you cannot end up owning the world in europe unless you went to the right schools, etc. not so in the US. similarly, most of the rest of the world, you can't end up owning the world if you're not already from a family that owns the world. not so in the US.

there are all sorts of reasons to criticize the US. but people don't just move here for the money, many, many people want the liberty you pretty much only get in the US (any of you all complaining about, e.g., the patriotic act know what's legal under the UK constitution?).

inmazevo · Post by **inmazevo** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:36 am

I used to live in a state DOMINATED by "tax cut" politics.
For my entire 25 years there, that's the ticket people ran with, and people voted for the folks that said they'd cut taxes the most.

The largest county in that state is now bankrupt... broke.

Funny how you have to (eventually) pay for your government.

Highest stuff on their ballet AGAIN this year:
tax cuts

Sewers and roads and buses and cops and airports... shit costs money.

Funny how that works...
- zevo

beats me · Post by **beats me** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:46 am

Maybe when China shows up to foreclose on the country people might get it.

dj superflat · Post by **dj superflat** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:25 am

the US deficit is not particularly high compared to historical (been higher with ford, reagan, bush I, etc.). the US national debt is not particularly high compared to other developed countries (well below japan, most of europe, etc.). not strange at all to run deficits, have debt, people, countries, businesses do it all the time, and outgrow it via growth.

the real issue is medicare, and to a far lesser extent SS. but neither is something that's actual debt (indeed, some $4 trillion of US nat'l debt is debt we owe ourselves for borrowing from SS), gov't can just walk away. regardless, medicare has to be dealt with (it's the serious elephant in the room), SS likely too. but US deficit and debt really aren't worries (check the numbers, i'm not making this up).

dj superflat · Post by **dj superflat** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:28 am

oh, china's not foreclosing on anything -- they need to sell to the US, that's why they buy T's. and we could always default rather than pay as necessary, we're about the only economy large enough to get away with it. but i don't think it will come to that, people are moving into the dollar and T's at this time because, worldwide, about the safest place. europe, asia facing demographic disaster, the US by contrast in best shape of developed nations. again, just look up how quickly china, japan, EU are going to become old compared to US. US is only developed country with increasing population to pay for and take care of the old folk (even though ratio's getting bad in US too).

ThrowAway · Post by **ThrowAway** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:48 am

stella's are definitely not that cheap in tampa, florida. personally i cant fucking stand them but our cheapest import i do drink, corona, is 8.99-9.99 for a sixer. Ill double check this when i go shopping later in the week.

forge · Post by **forge** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:21 am

ThrowAway wrote:stella's are definitely not that cheap in tampa, florida. personally i cant fucking stand them but our cheapest import i do drink, corona, is 8.99-9.99 for a sixer. Ill double check this when i go shopping later in the week.

I love how this is the point that keeps getting picked up on!

This was probably at least a year ago - maybe I got the stella bit or the price wrong (I was pretty sure) but the crux of it was like 3-4 times as much here for a 6 pack of beer

Donnie wrote: Just to start, I dont think a more socialized healthcare system would work in America, people are too fat and unhealthy here and like the freedom to be so. Any type of universal health care system will become a huge financial burden in this county, our way of life just isnt made for it. Plus, Americans like to work the system for any personal advantage possible. It would get exploited, hard, and by everyone rich or poor.

You've obviously never been to England or Australia then.

Actually UK and Oz are statistically number 2 & 3 on the worlds fat list last time I heard

Donnie wrote:Personally, I wouldn't mind living somewhere else but that's just because my mindset doesn't coincide with the American mindset overall. Never has. However at the same time im not going to, for one second, confuse myself into thinking that this country is something its not. It is a very independent, sink or swim, any man can do whatever he wants if he works hard enough place. It is definitely not a help everyone out and spread the wealth place. People are not like that, they expect you to rise up on your own accord. Im not saying people don't ever help each other out, but overall the mindset revolves around independence...which has become very self orientated over time but it is what it is.

maybe you need to spend more time abroad, it seems you think Americans are somehow more different to everyone else than they really are - seriously, you could replace the word "America" with many other countries and it would stil be true

beats me wrote:Maybe when China shows up to foreclose on the country people might get it.

+1 - [/thread]