music should be free!!!

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
nathannn
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Post by nathannn » Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:02 am

last man on earth wrote:This has got to be one of the lamest topics I've ever read.

I wrote a bunch of stuff here, but it's lost on someone as close-minded as the op, so I'm not going to waste the time or text on it, but one thing's for sure, I'd never buy a cd, record, t-shirt, or mp3 from him, strictly out of disrespect for the principles stated in the first post, and I wouldn't even steal one of your mp3's to pass on to friends either.

I'm happy to buy cd's from bands that I like, and granted, none of them are locals, but I support the artists that I love.

If you've got something against local bands, op, then don't go to their shows.
Or be in their bands.
In fact, you should get shitfaced and heckle them early on so that the bouncers toss you out immediately, making the live musical experience that much better for everyone else who wants to be there.
thats a pretty good response.. seriously.... you got me.. im stumped..
maybe tomorrow i will think of something that will really get your goat.
but you win.
i still think music should be free though
it should be free in the format of mp3 and badly produced mp3..
i had to edit that.
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nathannn
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Post by nathannn » Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:06 am

btw i give all my music away also but since its not up to par i dont feel people should even have to listen to my music freely.. i feel that i should pay them to listen..
since i feel i should pay them i dont get how other artist feel i should have to buy there cd even if i dont like there music.
i should be given a sampling of there music if i like it then i buy it. if i dont like it then o well.
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nathannn
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Post by nathannn » Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:09 am

also i feel i should ad.. i give my music away on cd format at shows..
i dont think people should pay for this. and i dont think people should pay for a major act like deftones. the physical format of the music should be looked at as a fucking business card to get people to your shows.
nothing more.
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Chang
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Post by Chang » Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:14 am

Shitty music should not be paid for by wannabes uploading garbage. Good music should be paid for. What about the masses of top notch producers that make brilliant music that do not 'play out live'? Let them starve? Rethink this blunt ignorant equation please.

OvertoneZero
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Post by OvertoneZero » Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:19 am

I only pay for vinyl
















pants

heavensdaw
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Re: music should be free!!!

Post by heavensdaw » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:11 am

nathannn wrote:unless its on vinyl.
vinyl is the only format worth paying for.
and every vinyl should come with a cd.. not a stupid fucking mp3 download.. i can download mp3 from the pirate bay.
also musicians should stop telling people to buy there fucking cd.. no one wants it.. i will go see your show buy your vinyl but not you shity cd.. and there is no way im paying for your crapy mp3...
i will buy your vinyl but only after i have tested the musical quality via shity mp3.
if i do find your music good enough to buy on vinyl i will go see your show. i probably wont be buying your t shirt unless, it looks stylish and not littered with your band name in huge letters and some splashy art work.

this should be law.
LMAO! you r a 1ker!

Hd

Robert Henke
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Re: music should be free!!!

Post by Robert Henke » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:47 am

nathannn wrote: vinyl is the only format worth paying for.

You are not paying for a format, you pay for the effort to create and to provide that creation to an audience.

Did it ever appear to you that there are different types of music demanding different formats? Ever heard about music that does not fit on a 12" ?

Music that is not a seven minute dance track?

Music that has more than two channels of audio?

Ever heard about music that cannot be performed? And I am not talking aobut pressing play on a computer, I talk about performance?

Music that comes from brilliant composers who simply do not want to perform because they do not feel comfortable to do so?

Music that cannot performed because there is a lack of locations / audience even if it is brilliant music?


Ever seen releases of this kind of music (and other) where someone took care and craftsmanship into a really nice and cool package of the format that the music works best on?

But, apart from all of this, in my experience most people who post statements like you just did typically get super anal about anything even vaguely related to your ideas as soon as they have their own BMG / Universal Music / whatsoever publishing deal set up....


And, last note: I do vinyl and CD releases. I do full color covers and good pressings, and I pay a good studio for the transfer. I can only put so much effort into the vinyl releases, because the CD sales are what create the necessary income. Manufacturing vinyl is expensive and selling vinyl is not gonna pay your rent. So, if you want to keep vinyl alive, you might consider buying now and then a CD from the artists you like.



Rob.
Last edited by Robert Henke on Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

shlomo
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Post by shlomo » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:29 am

i would only pay for oil paintings, not that shitty watercolor paintings or graphics (shit, most of those are only black and white, not a single color).

Robert Henke
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Post by Robert Henke » Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:00 am

Another aspect of this music should be free debate:

It is easy to spend an afternoon, doing some music, upload it somewhere for free.
But if you create a product, regardless of the format, you'll think twice of what to put on, because you know that people who payed for it will expect a certain quality.
So, actually the act of paying creates a commitment between the buyer and the person who creates. And this is an important factor for keeping the quality up.

I know people who have gigs of mp3s on their computer and who could not care less about music and i know people who buy obscure CDs from online stores, and who love to dig into the past and present of exciting non mainstream music. if no one would buy CDs anymore, no one would take the effort to compile some interesting gamelan music or what ever. This would be a cultural loss.

Rob.

forge
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Post by forge » Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:32 am

it's the debate of the age, that's for sure

I'm not sure where it will all lead when the current teenagers have grown up with no concept whatsoever of paying for music

maybe the net neutrality thing will happen and the record companies will win by controlling the internet rather than suing everybody

Personally I'm one who would rather be a studio musician given the chance, but in that sense I feel I was just born too late for that

I think the OP makes a good point about vinyl though - why radiohead gave their downloads as donationware and sold a premium version on vinyl

I think that vinyl is more collectable, but CDs can also be collectable if enough effort goes into it, and I also think the donation system is probably not a bad idea

at the end of the day if people want to sell their music then they should just do it without thinking too much about returns - there will probably always be some people who are prepared to pay for it, maybe you'll break even or even turn a profit

but I'm not sure how anyone who's not already established can expect to make that much money selling music from the start

I mean, maybe some of the people who are getting big who are more recent are earning from sales, but I'd expect them to have probably had their music shared for free for a while until they reached that 'critical mass' point where enough people were into them who were also prepared to pay so that they can earn a living

but I'd be willing to bet over the course of the financial year most people earning from their music would see a lot more of their income from playing live than from sales

but the funny thing about all this is, I really think I used to get copies of albums on tape from friends as a teenager much more than I would download from the internet now, and when I was a teenager that probably just made me more likely to buy a CD eventually

Robert Henke
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Post by Robert Henke » Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:56 am

Well, the whole debate is more a cultural debate then anything else. Lot's of fantastic music comes from people who cannot life from their musical work alone, and the idea to make a living from CD sales might be indeed a concept of the past. What worries me a bit more is the fact that it takes effort and dedication to come up with great art, is getting obscured by this whole music should be free debate. In many of those discussions I feel that slight undertone of "artists are payed way to much anyway." or "it's time to fight the bad Music industry". or "You laptop guys, this is so dead simple what you are doing, everyone could do this." And yes, all those statements have their reasons, as we all know. But as a shift in culture, they might make it harder to convince people to spend money on musical projects that actually would need the support.

But the debate about all those topics is great and extremely vital. It's amazing and pretty cool actually, that so many people are arguing about the value of art. In this regard, the internet with all its means of communication is a blessing. So, there is no reason to be pessimistic at all.

Rob.

Baron von Case
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Post by Baron von Case » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:08 pm

Maybe your music sucks so much that it should be free, but speak or yourself. Some of us would like to focus our lives primarily on music without starving to death after a week.
Image

forge
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Post by forge » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:24 pm

I agree it's a really interesting debate that can keep going back and forth - our man COSM here is living testament to the possibilities of a 'free music' model

something I always come back to though is the fact that what I can do now with a $1000 laptop, some speakers and software is about a million times better than the hacky crap I used to come up with on tape 15 years ago - admittedly that was mostly down to my age and inexperience, but now somebody of 17 learning can just log on and ask a bunch of people of all ages and experience levels on a forum like this for some really quite advanced advice on audio engineering that it took me years to learn the hard way - so in other words, it is alot easier (and cheaper) now

that doesn't mean any less time and effort can be put in by really dedicated people, but there are a lot more people producing work of a higher standard so the bar is higher and there is a much bigger pie to try and get a piece of

But oddly enough, I think the converse is also true. In the past it was also a lot harder to get a big recording contract or make it far without one, while now it is far more possible to make a 'cottage industry' production and do everything yourself, I just think it means you have to work a lot harder to see any returns

I think if the intention is to have a music career where you live off your music entirely, then these days it probably means branching out and doing lots of different related things - whether that be playing live, producing an interesting CD cover, T-Shirts and merchandise - whatever

but at least we can be thankful that when we 'go into the studio' it doesn't mean spending $1000 a day to argue with drummers and rush takes and re-do whole songs because the kick drum mic fell over half way through........ 8O
Last edited by forge on Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

forge
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Post by forge » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:29 pm

Baron von Case wrote:Maybe your music sucks so much that it should be free, but speak or yourself. Some of us would like to focus our lives primarily on music without starving to death after a week.
If you would like to focus your life primarily on music then it's a question you need to face - you can't just put your head in the sand on this one, the landscape has changed

you can either argue with what the OP says, or you can acknowledge that there is some reality in what he says, even if just because of the number of people who might have once been your potential customers who now see it the same way, and focus on how you are going to deal with this new landscape

Mike Goodwin
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Post by Mike Goodwin » Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:39 pm

I have not bought a record in over 5 years. I won final scratch when it came out and never looked back to vinyl. I had good collection of records at one time and 70% of them are gone. For playing out live the only thing other than I computer I would ever think of is a pair of CDJ's. Vinyl is nice and all but it is a pain in the ass and in the end it just wears out.

I love music and have dedicated most of my life to it. I did not dedicate all that time to a medium. It is just what allows me to listen to it the best. I personally prefer a digital medium for listening to. I may prefer if they record it to tape but on my end digital is great. I think that people often get caught up in the medium in a very unlogical way. It is about the music not about the vinyl or the Ipod, CDJ, computer.

When I buy music I also feel that I am buying the music, not the way that it was recorded. Some of my most loved music is recorded very poorly due to a lack of technoligy and funding. It was not due to people not caring or a bad recordist. That in no way made me feel riped off when I bought it. The music moved me and I was happy to support the people that got it to me. People can give there music away if they like to, there is nothing stopping people from using there music as a lost liter in order to try and get people out there shows and to draw attention in general. This can be a smart business move.

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