Sending MIDI to my MIDI Guitar?? How??

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Pickle Sprocket
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Sending MIDI to my MIDI Guitar?? How??

Post by Pickle Sprocket » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:09 pm

I just bought a MIDI guitar, but I am having a difficult time getting it to respond to Ableton Live. The strings work and make sound, and I have the MIDI channel set up in Live and it shows that it is receiving MIDI, but when I try and play back a MIDI clip in either Session view or Arrangement view, the guitar does not respond. None of the strings will vibrate or move at all. What should I try adjusting first?? Settings in Live, or on the guitar? Do I need a better MIDI cable?

Thanks for all your help, Ableton Live gurus.
Last edited by Pickle Sprocket on Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:11 pm

are you using a powered midi cable?

is is inserted the right way round? current only flows one way in a midi cable.
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rbro
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Re: Using a MIDI Guitar??

Post by rbro » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:15 pm

Pickle Sprocket wrote:I just bought a MIDI guitar, but I am having a difficult time getting it to respond to Ableton Live. The strings work and make sound, and I have the MIDI channel set up in Live and it shows that it is receiving MIDI, but when I try and play back a MIDI clip in either Session view or Arrangement view, the guitar does not respond. None of the strings will vibrate or move at all. What should I try adjusting first?? Settings in Live, or on the guitar? Do I need a better MIDI cable?

Thanks for all your help, Ableton Live gurus.
You're kidding, right? You know the strings aren't really going to vibrate, right?

Pickle Sprocket
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Post by Pickle Sprocket » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:22 pm

Tone Deft wrote:are you using a powered midi cable?

is is inserted the right way round? current only flows one way in a midi cable.
Thank you for your quick answer. Yes, I am using a Powered MIDI Cable by Monster Cable, which really seems like it would be the best choice. How can I tell which direction to plug the cable in? My cable does not have arrows, perhaps they came off. Do I need to also have the audio cable plugged in at the same time as the MIDI, even though all I want sent to the guitar is the MIDI? Because obviously I want the audio cable to be plugged into my Amp while the MIDI is playing back the notes to be played on the guitar, so that I can jam along with either my keyboard or drums while the guitar plays back through the amp, for a more realistic jam session.

Thanks for you help Tone Deft.

P.S. rbro why would I be joking? Yes, the strings on the guitar definitely do vibrate, this isn't one of those MIDI guitars like Guitar Hero, it's also a real guitar, so the strings are real guitar strings that vibrate and make sound. Please do your research before posting unhelpful messages.
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crumhorn
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Re: Using a MIDI Guitar??

Post by crumhorn » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:24 pm

rbro wrote:
Pickle Sprocket wrote:I just bought a MIDI guitar, but I am having a difficult time getting it to respond to Ableton Live. The strings work and make sound, and I have the MIDI channel set up in Live and it shows that it is receiving MIDI, but when I try and play back a MIDI clip in either Session view or Arrangement view, the guitar does not respond. None of the strings will vibrate or move at all. What should I try adjusting first?? Settings in Live, or on the guitar? Do I need a better MIDI cable?

Thanks for all your help, Ableton Live gurus.
You're kidding, right? You know the strings aren't really going to vibrate, right?
Nice idea though! :)
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CHARLIE!
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Post by CHARLIE! » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:26 pm

Pickle Sprocket wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:are you using a powered midi cable?

is is inserted the right way round? current only flows one way in a midi cable.
Thank you for your quick answer. Yes, I am using a Powered MIDI Cable by Monster Cable, which really seems like it would be the best choice. How can I tell which direction to plug the cable in? My cable does not have arrows, perhaps they came off. Do I need to also have the audio cable plugged in at the same time as the MIDI, even though all I want sent to the guitar is the MIDI? Because obviously I want the audio cable to be plugged into my Amp while the MIDI is playing back the notes to be played on the guitar, so that I can jam along with either my keyboard or drums while the guitar plays back through the amp, for a more realistic jam session.

Thanks for you help Tone Deft.

P.S. rbro why would I be joking? Yes, the strings on the guitar definitely do vibrate, this isn't one of those MIDI guitars like Guitar Hero, it's also a real guitar, so the strings are real guitar strings that vibrate and make sound. Please do your research before posting unhelpful messages.

I am pretty sure Midi guitars only work as controllers and do not actually play the guitar for you via midi....

you can play the strings and get sound but that only goes one way... into the computer.

Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:28 pm

Pickle Sprocket wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:are you using a powered midi cable?

is is inserted the right way round? current only flows one way in a midi cable.
Thank you for your quick answer. Yes, I am using a Powered MIDI Cable by Monster Cable, which really seems like it would be the best choice. How can I tell which direction to plug the cable in? My cable does not have arrows, perhaps they came off. Do I need to also have the audio cable plugged in at the same time as the MIDI, even though all I want sent to the guitar is the MIDI? Because obviously I want the audio cable to be plugged into my Amp while the MIDI is playing back the notes to be played on the guitar, so that I can jam along with either my keyboard or drums while the guitar plays back through the amp, for a more realistic jam session.

Thanks for you help Tone Deft.

P.S. rbro why would I be joking? Yes, the strings on the guitar definitely do vibrate, this isn't one of those MIDI guitars like Guitar Hero, it's also a real guitar, so the strings are real guitar strings that vibrate and make sound. Please do your research before posting unhelpful messages.
it could also be a problem with your pickups, what kind are they? do they say midi on them anywhere? you might have to take apart your guitar to check.

dude - if the powered midi cable doesn't work one way, just flip it around. sometimes you can tell by checking the anodization on the cable by licking it, the cathode (negative end) should taste slightly bitter/sour while the anode (positive end) should taste sweet.

I bet it's the pickups.


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crumhorn
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Post by crumhorn » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:31 pm

Tone Deft wrote: yeah, ignore the haters, they don't get it.
Ignore the haters and go with the hatters.
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Post by 3phase » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:36 pm

just in case you are not all complete honks..

midiguitars usually send on 6 channels... a situation live cant handle properly as far as i know... you need to record the guitar midi on 6 tracks that are set to the individual channels
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Pickle Sprocket
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In reference to the type of Pick-Ups I am Using

Post by Pickle Sprocket » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:38 pm

The guitar I purchased has 2 types of Pick=Ups, it has the electro-magnet versions for making sound with the strings, and it has a separate set of MIDI Pick-Ups for recording the clips into Ableton Live through the computer. So to answer your question more specifically, only one set of Pick-ups say MIDI on them. So is that the problem? That the MIDI pick-ups won't be able to make the strings vibrate, that I do in fact have to have an audio cable also hooked up to my interface in order to make the electro-magnet pickups vibrate the strings? That would be very disappointing, as I clearly stated before that my ideal situation is to have the MIDI play back the recorded MIDI clips to the guitar, and that the audio would then go out to my guitar amp.

I hope there is a solution!

I did the Powered MIDI Cable taste-test, and I did find that the cathode end was bitter and sour, but you didn't specify which end goes in the guitar? Does the negative (bitter) end go in the guitar or the MIDI interface?

Thanks for your informative help! This is really confusing stuff!
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Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:38 pm

crumhorn wrote:
Tone Deft wrote: yeah, ignore the haters, they don't get it.
Ignore the haters and go with the hatters.
we're ALL mad here!!


3phase - good point, I forgot about that.
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rbro
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Post by rbro » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:40 pm

Pickle Sprocket wrote: P.S. rbro why would I be joking? Yes, the strings on the guitar definitely do vibrate, this isn't one of those MIDI guitars like Guitar Hero, it's also a real guitar, so the strings are real guitar strings that vibrate and make sound. Please do your research before posting unhelpful messages.
Well of course they vibrate, but they don't receive MIDI data and vibrate in response to that. Just like my keyboard keys don't go up and down by themselves when I play back MIDI data.

Pickle Sprocket
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This is in regards to the different MIDI channels to be sent

Post by Pickle Sprocket » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:40 pm

3phase wrote:just in case you are not all complete honks..

midiguitars usually send on 6 channels... a situation live cant handle properly as far as i know... you need to record the guitar midi on 6 tracks that are set to the individual channels
Wow, thanks for that tip, I completely did not think of that, I was sending only 1 MIDI channel to the guitar. I will try and separate all of my MIDI clips into 6 different channels to send to each of the strings. Could you explain further and tell me which MIDI channel should be going to each string? Is there a standard protocol for that? Is the low E string always designated to Channel 3 or something? Perhaps I have to enable Sync in Ableton Live to go to the guitar?

My gosh, so many variables, I wish they had included this in the Ableton Live manual.
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Tone Deft
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Re: In reference to the type of Pick-Ups I am Using

Post by Tone Deft » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:45 pm

Pickle Sprocket wrote:only one set of Pick-ups say MIDI on them. So is that the problem? That the MIDI pick-ups won't be able to make the strings vibrate, that I do in fact have to have an audio cable also hooked up to my interface in order to make the electro-magnet pickups vibrate the strings? That would be very disappointing, as I clearly stated before that my ideal situation is to have the MIDI play back the recorded MIDI clips to the guitar, and that the audio would then go out to my guitar amp.
definitely try ALL your pickup selector combinations, just to make sure.
I hope there is a solution!
you might want to contact support@ableton.com
the 6 channel midi limitation might be a problem. in your e-mail point them to this thread, it'll help.
I did the Powered MIDI Cable taste-test, and I did find that the cathode end was bitter and sour, but you didn't specify which end goes in the guitar? Does the negative (bitter) end go in the guitar or the MIDI interface?
omfg sorry about that, my bad. :oops:
since the current will be sourced at the computer and sunk into the guitar you want the cathode to be at the guitar end of the cable. the opposite is true for recording into the computer. you need a full duplex midi guitar cable, I don't know if Monster ever made those. dunno, mine's some Korean model.
Thanks for your informative help! This is really confusing stuff!
brother you don't know the half of it!!
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

Pickle Sprocket
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Post by Pickle Sprocket » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:48 pm

rbro wrote:
Pickle Sprocket wrote: P.S. rbro why would I be joking? Yes, the strings on the guitar definitely do vibrate, this isn't one of those MIDI guitars like Guitar Hero, it's also a real guitar, so the strings are real guitar strings that vibrate and make sound. Please do your research before posting unhelpful messages.
Well of course they vibrate, but they don't receive MIDI data and vibrate in response to that. Just like my keyboard keys don't go up and down by themselves when I play back MIDI data.
Um, again, you really need to do your research before posting. My piano most certainly does move the keys when I play back my MIDI parts. Here is a video of the same piano system I use to play back my MIDI.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqIWf58fE7U

I'm just trying to get my MIDI guitar set up to do the same thing. I assume it must be quite simple, if they can make a system to move all 88 keys of my piano, then clearly moving the 6 strings on my guitar is less complicated technology. Obviously the problem here is operator error!
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