Akai MPCs, why so legendary ?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:19 am

Live can do that.
ctrl-m
select a clip with a sound in it.
hold down a low midi note on a keyboard
hold down a high midi note on a keyboard
ctrl-m.
your sample is now mapped from one note to the next.



I'll think of a way to do velocity.
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At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
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Chang
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Post by Chang » Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:36 am

Tone Deft wrote:Live can do that.
ctrl-m
select a clip with a sound in it.
hold down a low midi note on a keyboard
hold down a high midi note on a keyboard
ctrl-m.
your sample is now mapped from one note to the next.



I'll think of a way to do velocity.

Yes, but difference is once you've sequenced in drum machine you hit exit and sequence is still there sounding the way you played even though the notes are gone. In your example if you delete the clip you've control m'ed it would no longer fire. There would be no sound. In mpc it remains.

Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:42 am

:roll: that's weak. delete the clip and the feature is gone? FFS delete the sample on the mpc and the feature is gone...

OK, the difference is that on the mpc you can no longer use the pads for various tones AND use it to bang out beats at the same time. with Live you can play a sample across keys but still have keys left over to bang beats, even if it's just the computer keyboard.

you're nitpicking, Live doesn't do exactly everything the MPC does and vice versa, point is, the features are there.

if you want to go that route, you can slice beats MUCH faster in Live than an mpc.

I really like the mpc but I know Live well enough to know that they have a LOT of features in common. IMO I like having the mpc around, I like using it, but it doesn't add many features to my setup but I love having a hardware sequencer/sampler around.

btw man, the pic in your signature is pretty annoying, it lags my browser. people tend to keep their sig pics small.
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
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dcease
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Re: Akai MPCs, why so legendary ?

Post by dcease » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:11 am

Chang wrote:
navitus wrote:Ok, so "Starving Student" from these boards got me researching on the Akai MPC series.


But its more geared for studio stuff and less live performance am i right ?
Isn't live with an akai MPD controller the ultimate MPC ?

I'm missing something, please elaborate.
Cheers
F

Long time MPC 2000 and 4000 owner here. The main reason the mpc is better is sequencing work flow. Hit one pad puts all pads in pitch mode on the fly of that sound, hit another pad put selected sound velocity on all pads on the fly and in the 4000s case, hit pad put sound on all pads with all kinds of filter levels on the fly and tons of other items constantly sequencing away. This is more powerful than anything when it comes to sequencing. The MPD controller is just a lookalike and is anything but an "ultimate MPC" it can't do those features that only the mpc line can which are the most important powerful ones. The mdp is just a midi controller with some pads and fader controllers. Just use keyboard controller, close your eyes and pretend your hitting pads, it does same thing. Being an mpc owner I've never understood the mdp thing. it looks like an mpc with little pads but is far from an mpc. And to my knowledge there is no way to make Live or any other daw act like an mpc in use with an mdp.

I wish there was.
bullshit. i press a button, and a pad, and it pitches my chosen drum rack pad. push the same button, and everything pops back to normal. there's like, a few different velocities available at the push of a button, and if that isn't getting it, a knob or slider can be set to a velocity plug... i shouldn't have to explain how complicated/deep you can take racks, for sounds, filtering and such :) ... of course this takes some setting up from the user, but to some people, esp. those who know live fairly well, and enjoy tinkering with stuff, this can be advantageous. spend a little time, roll your own, and get on with it. if one can't sequence in live, i'd say that is that user's problem, not live's. maybe a native step sequencer would be nice, but creating loops, editing them, and triggering them, contrary to popular belief, IS possible with live. so what if it takes a little bit more work for a bit of swing, figure it out, or play the shit yourself.

i'm not dissing the mpc, and sure, it was around before live, and it supposedly has instant gratification, and all the hiphposters use it, and it is the ONLY thing rap can be "written" with :roll: ... but to say the mpd is "merely" a midi controller is kind of misleading. using that logic, live is just a plug-in host. sure, peeps are comfortable using their mpc's, and that is fine. but owning all three of the big pad controllers, i'd have to say, you can do a lot with live, and an mpd, which would be slightly more convoluted with the other two brands. sure, you can't do anything with the mpd, by itself, but i can do a hell of a lot more with a laptop, an mpd, and live, with no power supply, than can be done with a mpc500. does your 2000, 2500, 3000, 4000, or 5000 run on batteries?

bottom line? use what works for you, i left sequencing on screens the size of an iphone's display a few years ago for live, and i don't regret it at all. ymmv, of course. it's all about the tunes, anyway, who gives a fuck how the end result is achieved?

dcease
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Post by dcease » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:13 am

and, yeah, to the shit that was written in the extremely long time it took me to write my response :lol:

dcease
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Post by dcease » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:14 am

now i'm off to do some midi controlling :P four day weekends rule 8)

Chang
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Post by Chang » Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:58 am

Tone Deft wrote::roll: that's weak. delete the clip and the feature is gone? FFS delete the sample on the mpc and the feature is gone...

OK, the difference is that on the mpc you can no longer use the pads for various tones AND use it to bang out beats at the same time. with Live you can play a sample across keys but still have keys left over to bang beats, even if it's just the computer keyboard.

you're nitpicking, Live doesn't do exactly everything the MPC does and vice versa, point is, the features are there.

if you want to go that route, you can slice beats MUCH faster in Live than an mpc.

I really like the mpc but I know Live well enough to know that they have a LOT of features in common. IMO I like having the mpc around, I like using it, but it doesn't add many features to my setup but I love having a hardware sequencer/sampler around.

btw man, the pic in your signature is pretty annoying, it lags my browser. people tend to keep their sig pics small.



Not nitpicking.

Yea, sig is bugging me too I'll get rid.

I have been unable to explain apparently what the mpc can do that the mdp cannot. I don;t know whats worse, my english or anyone wanting to understand.

I will try one last analogy this time using Live instead of Mpc for analogy.



You bring up an instance of Drumrack.

You fill every single pad of drum rack each with a totally different sound so its completely full from top to bottom.


Your sequencing along with your drum rack and all of a sudden you say I'd like to play this hihat on this one single pad in drum rack in multi pitch mode (without pitch effect). You'd highlight that pad on drum rack and hit a magical button (which doesn't exists yet) and every single pad on the entire drum rack would temporarily become that hihat pitched from C1 to C6 or whatever from top to bottom all the exact same hihat but temporarily pitched like a piano.


temporarily being the key word there. You play different keys on your controller and come up with some crazy multipitched hihat pattern. Now when your done sequencing it, you hit a magical button (which doesn't exists yet) and pow, your drum rack pads all revert back to seeing all of your original sounds again from top to bottom.

The one hihat on its own pad that you multipitched is flickering along by itself in the drumrack playing all in different pitches by itself and on the same midi line by itself yet the pitches are all different as you played them. Thats the magic of mpc. All without any pitch effects or macros etc.

Thats what mpc does. And this is one example out of thousands.

In prior post i was simply explaining the difference between mpc and mdp. Not mpc vs live as you are alluding.
Last edited by Chang on Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

starving student
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Re: Akai MPCs, why so legendary ?

Post by starving student » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:01 am

Chang wrote:
starving student wrote:
Chang wrote:
Long time MPC 2000 and 4000 owner here. The main reason the mpc is better is sequencing work flow. Hit one pad puts all pads in pitch mode on the fly of that sound, hit another pad put selected sound velocity on all pads on the fly and in the 4000s case, hit pad put sound on all pads with all kinds of filter levels on the fly and tons of other items constantly sequencing away. This is more powerful than anything when it comes to sequencing. The MPD controller is just a lookalike and is anything but an "ultimate MPC" it can't do those features that only the mpc line can which are the most important powerful ones. The mdp is just a midi controller with some pads and fader controllers. Just use keyboard controller, close your eyes and pretend your hitting pads, it does same thing. Being an mpc owner I've never understood the mdp thing. it looks like an mpc with little pads but is far from an mpc. And to my knowledge there is no way to make Live or any other daw act like an mpc in use with an mdp.

I wish there was.
chang, could you go into more detail as to why you think the mpd32/software can't do what an mpc can do? I'm very intrested in the specific features you're thinking of, as you can see i love the mpc but i also love live and am always trying to learn more about them, thanks and don't mean to put you on the spot :)




On the mpc you have banks of sounds you've brought in. Lets just keep it simple and say 1 sound per pad. Kick, Kick #2, Snare, Synth bass, Synth bass #2, Snare #2, hat etc etc etc etc covered across all pads on all banks. Now heres the thing. With the touch of one button you can hit the Synthbass pad for instance, hit pitch and instantly it will appear across all pads (in 4000 all banks as well 88 keys) you sequence this bass line sound however you want, use tap repeat even then hit exit, and all the pads will pop back to normal as they were Kick, Kick #2, Snare, Synth bass, Synth bass #2, Snare #2, hat etc etc etc etc but your sequencing of the bassline remains. This is an extremely powerful feature and is obviously impossible to do with mdp and live or any other daw.

Same thing goes for velocity. You have all your sounds spread out across your banks and with one button you can hit the hihat for instance, and set it to velocity. Now temporarily as with the bassline example above, it appears at different velocities across all pads so you can sequence how you want, rolling up 32nd hats in step, or playing the hats on diff velocities to give beat a groove, tap auto repeat etc etc. Once you're done, you hit exit and everything goes back to normal with original sounds on all your pads. This goes for tweaking filters, pitching things and can do it all with tap repeat on and everything gets sequenced and just exit all pops back to normal.


On MDP you play 16 sounds on a little midi controller with a few midi knobs doing the same thing you can do with any midi controller keyboard out there. All sound on pads is just triggering. You cannot do what is described above in any fashion.


Do you understand now? English is not my first language.
thanks Chang, i do understand , you're talking about 16 levels or autochromatic feature right? I don't have a 4000 but I have a 1000 running jjs os and a couple of 500s

Nick the Zombie
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Post by Nick the Zombie » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:09 am

I tend to agree that Live really is as efficient as an MPC if not more so once you get your workflow down. With the addition of drumracks, The gap narrows a LOT. The MPC is great because you don't need a computer to run it, and thus to many people it feels more like a creative instrument than an email-checker that happens to let you write music on it, too :) I don't personally feel that way, but I understand that point of view.

- Nick

starving student
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Post by starving student » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:09 am

will you mother fuckers stop being so damn agressive?, did you even read the fucking thread title, if you don't like the mpc then shut the fuck up!!!!!, there are some people who like both and are trying to get info, this chang dude shows up with an opinion and info and everybody gets a fuckin attitude.

go to mpc forums.com with that crap

Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:14 am

Chang wrote:I don;t know whats worse, my english or anyone wanting to understand.
that's really funny. welcome to the forum, that's how it goes. ;) even between native English speakers misunderstandings happen. your english is pretty good, I respect that, I couldn't post on a forum in Spanish (the only other language I know.)
You bring up an instance of Drumrack.
I think it's interesting to compare Live and the MPC but I think you're too focused on drum racks.

let me put it this way... like Nick wrote, I would not advise someone to buy an MPC when they have Live because the MPC would add significant features that Live cannot do, Live and the MPC do very similar things. I do advise people to get an MPC to have low latency fun with a sequencer and sampler.
I was simply explaining the difference between mpc and mdp. Not mpc vs live as you are alluding.
I missed that, sorry.


you changed your sig, cool. by all means use any picture you want, it's an open forum, feel free to express yourself. ;)


Nick - well put.

student - :roll: take your own advice. :P

dcease - FUCK YEAH to 4 day weekends!!!!!!!!
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

starving student
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Post by starving student » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:16 am

what is with you td you used to be a nice guy when you first got here you're always confrontational these days

starving student
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Post by starving student » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:20 am

forget it..........



no one in there right mind would claim that an mpc is feature for feature more powerful than Live, and the original op wasn't even concerned about that, but on an attempt to get back on topic lets go through that door.

it's like this, a computer/laptop with microsoft word on it is far more powerful than a notebook., but a rapper would most likely reach for a notebook moreso than a computer when he gets some rhymes in his head cause the workflow is superior on a notebook .

Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:29 am

what the fuck does that mean? omfg you cunt!!!


totally joking... dunno, I just don't give a fuck anymore, I speak my mind and do try to listen when people call me out. if you have a problem with me, my PM inbox is open. nice is boring. go read www.abletonlivedj.com or the Sonar forums, fuck those dorks!!
:twisted:
THIS.... IS.... SPARTA!!!!!

seriously, did I really write anything that bad? confrontational? why the fuck not, this is MUSIC!!! this is AUDIO!! I love this shit!!!!!!!!!!!!! if I was a nice guy before it was because I was full of shit. :lol:

don't forget it, MPCs and Live are really cool toys, would you rather talk about politics or finances or taxes or work?? fuck that noise!!!

Student - you're a great MPC fanboy, wave that flag!!! spread the knowledge!! challenge people!!
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

starving student
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Post by starving student » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:49 am

umm yeah right.... :roll:

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