why BUY Live?

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
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leedsquietman
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Post by leedsquietman » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:27 pm

Reaper is not free.

It is 50 dollars for a non commercial license and 175 dollars to upgrade that to a professional license. Although the latter relies on on trust.

You can demo it for free. You can demo live for free for up to 14 days. That should be more than enough to make an evaluation of it without having to resort to using cracks.

Crash's experience is one thing, other people's experience is something else - not much difference there then ;) Although I sympathise with the problems Chris and Crash have been having and especially Vista. MS have a lot to answer for. Yes, some of the warezed software works better than others but most of it eventually comes undone in some way or another.

Steinberg want to move away from the dongle to e-licensing, this could be what that relates to re:synchrosoft. They have been going on about changing the dongle system for nearly 3 years, so it's not before time. Other companies like IK Multimedia have moved away from dongles too.
http://soundcloud.com/umbriel-rising http://www.myspace.com/leedsquietmandemos Live 7.0.18 SUITE, Cubase 5.5.2], Soundforge 9, Dell XPS M1530, 2.2 Ghz C2D, 4GB, Vista Ult SP2, legit plugins a plenty, Alesis IO14.

Crash
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Post by Crash » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:30 pm

Seriously, I don't care how complex software is as long as their respective companies doesn't care to tread their customers with more respect. Bugs happen, no problem, eventhough some bugs are so obvious that they testify to lacking quality assurance.

Never have I seen any Marketing telling me that the piece of software I am buying is so complex that it might throw the developers into serious troubles to fix issues once they are encountered. They don't tell you that they are lacking resources and staff members to get done with all the work and support requests thrown at them. They all keep telling you how great a company they are and how they software is market leading and full of bliss.

Now that's Marketing, we know how to read that. But then comes Support. They don't tell you how overworked they are and that fixes will take a long time because they lack resources and are bombarded by support request. They don't tell you that their developers are busy getting the next version done before the next big music/software fair. They don't tell you that your request is irrelevant in their bigger plan. Instead they give any answer necessary to keep their image as a supposed professional elite company intact. They often don't even tell you to put your issue on the list, but keep telling you that they are not able to reproduce anything or that "You are the only person who reported this" until you finally give up.

No one expects complex software to be flawless, but everyone expect to be serviced properly once he is struck by issues with that software.

PS: Due to Live's incapability to run properly on Vista I have not nearly as much experience with it as I'd liked to. But since SP1 in all the times I worked with it and put it to hard times of stress with several different audio applications I encountered only two minor issues that both lead to maximum CPU load on one CPU core: one with old type icons in the Start menu (that ain't supposed to be used anymore anyway) and one with using the transparent marker box on the desktop (which doesn't seem to work on XP at all).

Any other problems were based on driver issues or application issues. There was a serious problems with RME Fireface drivers that were instantly fixed by RME once they were identified. There were some serious isses with Sonar's Vista implementation that once identified was fixed by Cakewalk (and I wasn't even a Cakewalk customer when I reported it!)!

Ableton Live had issues with the RME drivers mentioned and Ableton Support did a very questionable job when looking after the problems. Live 6 and 7 have serious issues on Vista which are known for nearly a year, neither have these ever been publically acknowledged nor do proper fixes exist yet. The few statements from Ableton about these issues was to name them "performance differences but not bugs". I laugh in your face for such immature statements! :lol: If only it wasn't so miserable... :(
Last edited by Crash on Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
HAL: I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission. And I want to help you.

Crash
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Post by Crash » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:34 pm

leedsquietman wrote:You can demo it for free. You can demo live for free for up to 14 days. That should be more than enough to make an evaluation of it without having to resort to using cracks.
C'mon friend, 14 days for evaluating such a complex piece of software in your little free time? That may be enough for kids when the weather outside is bad. But that's surely not enough for any busy person. And according to Ableton's phone support you cannot even use it without an active Internet connection! 8O Sorry for using such dramatic statements again, but: That's a joke! :!:
Last edited by Crash on Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
HAL: I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission. And I want to help you.

Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:35 pm

Perhaps you'll pardon me if I write this post in a more personal vein than usual. I want to tell you about some personal perceptions of mine, primarily because Ableton's secret agents can't defend their campaigns of malice and malignity. There are a number of reasons Ableton isn't telling us as to why it wants to snooker people of every stripe into believing that it can confuse, befuddle, and neutralize public opposition and get away with it. In this post, I will expose those reasons one-by-one, on the principle that if we can understand what has caused the current plague of pusillanimous parvenus, I believe that we can then shatter the illusion that its traducements enhance performance standards, productivity, and competitiveness.

Ableton's most steadfast claim is that university professors must conform their theses and conclusions to its silly prejudices if they want to publish papers and advance their careers. If there were any semblance of truth in this, I would be the last to say anything against it. As it stands, however, Ableton spouts a lot of numbers whenever it wants to make a point. It then subjectively interprets those numbers to support its anecdotes while ignoring the fact that neocolonialism is, at its core, a self-serving system that seeks to waste natural resources. And I can say that with a clear conscience because if you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem.

You won't find many of Ableton's subordinates who will openly admit that they favor Ableton's schemes to usher in the beginning of a craven new era of anarchism. In fact, their wheelings and dealings are characterized by a plethora of rhetoric to the contrary. If you listen closely, though, you'll hear how carefully they cover up the fact that certain facts are clear. For instance, I don't know what makes Ableton think that once it has approved of something it can't possibly be amoral. Maybe it's been sipping cuckoo juice. The fact of the matter is that when Ableton's spiteful, boisterous utterances are translated into plain, words-mean-things English, it appears to be saying that those who disagree with it should be cast into the outer darkness, should be shunned, should starve. For me, this brainless moonshine serves only to emphasize how Ableton has been known to "prove" statistically that delusional, conniving scatterbrains have dramatically lower incidences of cancer, heart attacks, heart disease, and many other illnesses than the rest of us. As you might have suspected, its proof is flawed. The primary problem with it is that it replaces a legitimate claim of association with an illegitimate claim of causality. Consequently, Ableton's "proof" demonstrates only that almost every day, it outreaches itself in setting new records for arrogance, deceit, and greed. It's indeed breathtaking to watch it.

Although Ableton is only one turd floating in the moral cesspool that our society has become, I want to unify our community. Ableton, in contrast, wants to drive divisive ideological wedges through it. Sometime in the future Ableton will belittle all fine social standards. Fortunately, that hasn't happened...yet. But it will indubitably happen if we don't hinder the power of destructive crackpots like Ableton.

Ableton sincerely needs a healthy dose of conflict-resolution and peer-mediation training. Ask anyone. Ableton claims that free speech is wonderful as long as you're not bashing it and the presumptuous, sappy spoilsports in its retinue. I warrant that the absurdities within that claim speak for themselves although I should add that Ableton likes programs of Gleichschaltung that institutionalize plagiarism through systematic violence, distorted religion, and dubious science. Could there be a conflict of interest there? If you were to ask me, I'd say that it might have been in a lethargic state of autointoxication when it said that divine ichor flows through its veins. More likely, perhaps, is that I want to thank Ableton for its diatribes. They give me an excellent opportunity to illustrate just how indecent Ableton can be.

The fault, dear Ableton, is not in your stars but in yourself. Ableton commonly appoints ineffective people to important positions. It then ensures that these people stay in those positions because that makes it easy for Ableton to perpetuate harmful stereotypes. Ableton insists that all any child needs is a big dose of television every day. In the long run, however, it's only fooling itself. Ableton would be better off if it just admitted to itself that my goal is to get it to realize that most other bloodthirsty yokels are not as inhumane as they seem. Of course, if it insists on remaining an ignorant, uninformed, and ill-informed beggar, that's its prerogative.

It is not my goal to cause the destruction of human ambition and joy, but the opposite. The destruction of the Tower of Babel, be it a literal truth, an allegory, or a mere story based upon cultural archetypes, illustrates this truth plainly. While it's true that Ableton and pretentious degenerates are cut from the same cloth, it has yet to acknowledge that fact. Ableton has the nerve to call those of us who take away as many of its opportunities for mischief as possible "conspiracy theorists". No, we're "conspiracy revealers" because we reveal that some of us have an opportunity to come in contact with what I call testy euphuists on a regular basis at work or in school. We, therefore, may be able to gain some insight into the way they think, into their values; we may be able to understand why they want to prevent us from recognizing the vast and incomparable achievements, contributions, and discoveries that are the product of our culture.

If one could get a Ph.D. in Jingoism, Ableton would be the first in line to have one. It's best to ignore most of the quotes that Ableton so frequently cites. It takes quotes of of context; uses misleading, irrelevant, and out-of-date quotes; and, presents quotes from legitimate authorities used misleadingly to support contentions that they did not intend and that are not true. In short, Ableton's vicegerents are merely ciphers. Ableton is the one who decides whether or not to turn me, a typically mild-mannered person, into a mumpish vat of Marxism. Ableton is the one who gives out the orders to offer hatred with an intellectual gloss. And Ableton is the one trying to conceal how anyone -- you or I or a Martian just arrived in a flying saucer -- who wants to call a spade a spade should realize that what it is doing is not an innocent, recreational sort of thing. It is a criminal activity, it is an immoral activity, it is a socially destructive activity, and it is a profoundly baleful activity.

The facts are, succinctly, these: First, we can't let addlepated junkies ram Ableton's artifices down our throats. Second, it has spent untold hours trying to brandish the word "anthropophysiography" (as it is commonly spelled) to hoodwink people into believing that it is clean and bright and pure inside. During that time, did it ever once occur to it that we must truly carry out this matter to the full extent of the law without the slightest consideration for any screams and complaints that might arise? Personally, I don't believe the answer has anything to do with elitism. Rather, I believe it involves Ableton's tendency to exploit other cultures for self-entertainment. I frequently wish to tell Ableton that its fixation with flighty vulgarians is pushy. But being a generally genteel person, however, I always bite my tongue. Ableton will destroy our country from within sometime soon -- not necessarily by direct action, but by convincing its admirers to require schoolchildren to be taught that we have no reason to be fearful about the criminally violent trends in our society today and over the past ten to fifteen years. I fully intend to lend support to the thesis that Ableton has no idea what it's doing. I will spare no labor in doing this and reckon no labor lost that brings me toward this mark. Even so, the next time Ableton decides to leach integrity and honor from our souls, it should think to itself, cui bono? -- who benefits?

If Ableton truly believes that all major world powers are controlled by a covert group of "insiders", then maybe it should enroll in Introduction to Reality 101. Even when the facts don't fit, Ableton sometimes tries to use them anyway. It still maintains, for instance, that it holds a universal license that allows it to put our liberties at risk by an appalling and nettlesome rush to make it virtually impossible to fire incompetent workers. Ableton's claim that obscurity, evasiveness, incomprehensibility, indirectness, and ambiguity are marks of depth and brilliance is factually unsupported and politically motivated. Finally, this has been a good deal of reading, and really difficult reading at that. Still, I hope you walk away from it with the new knowledge that Ableton has begun -- without so much as a by-your-leave -- an effort to ignite a maelstrom of hooliganism.
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

Crash
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Post by Crash » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:37 pm

C'mon Tone, you can do better than using that funny little rant generator. :wink:
HAL: I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission. And I want to help you.

nebulae
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Post by nebulae » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:38 pm

I am not writing to agree or disagree with Mr. Tone Deft. What I have to say, however, regards Tone Deft's conscious decision to use lethal violence as a source of humor. I will start this discussion by arguing that he expresses only the noblest intentions, singing praises to the value of community even as he enacts policies that marginalize and eventually even outlaw responsible critics of repugnant, coldhearted individuals. Then, I will present evidence that he claims that immoralism is a wonderful thing. That claim is preposterous and, to use Tone Deft's own language, overtly conceited. No history can justify it.

There is absolutely nothing that judgmental mountebanks like Tone Deft will not do to destroy their enemies. They will poke into the most secret family affairs and not rest until their truffle-searching instinct digs up some imprudent incident that is calculated to finish off their unfortunate victim. If his mind games were intended as a joke, he forgot to include the punchline. On that note, let me say that I know some morally questionable lowlifes who actually believe that he has the authority to issue licenses for practicing plagiarism. Incredible? Those same people have told me that big emotions come from big words. With such people roaming about, it should come as no surprise to you that his expositors tend to fall into the mistaken belief that national-security interests can and should be sidestepped whenever his personal interests are at stake, mainly because they live inside a Tone Deft-generated illusion-world and talk only with each other.

The dominant characteristic of Tone Deft's illaudable modes of thought is not that they reap a harvest of death, but that, in the bargain, they abandon the idea of universal principles and focus illegitimately on the particular. Let me put it this way: Tone Deft's coadjutors have been running around recently trying to nourish haughty ideologies. Meanwhile, Tone Deft has been preparing to infiltrate and then dominate and control the mass media. The whole episode smacks of a carefully orchestrated operation. If you ask me, Tone Deft's slogans are a load of bunk. I use this delightfully pejorative term, "bunk" -- an alternative from the same page of my criminal-slang lexicon would serve just as well -- because I feel that Tone Deft has insulted everyone with even the slightest moral commitment. He obviously has none or he wouldn't make my stomach turn.

True, Tone Deft's villainous objectives are forcing our nation to face embarrassment after embarrassment and disaster after disaster, but Tone Deft is out to heat the cauldron of terror until it boils over into our daily lives. And when we play his game, we become accomplices. Though I don't doubt the depth of his sentiments, it's rather the form of his expressions that I find both humorless and eccentric. In its annual report on condescending incidents, the government concluded that if you'll allow me a minor dysphemism, a day of reckoning is coming, and Tone Deft will be called to account. Or, to phrase that a little more politely, Tone Deft's a psychologically defective person. He's what the psychiatrists call a constitutional psychopath or a sociopath.

We'd all be in grave danger if Tone Deft continued to engage in his dishonest behavior. In spite of the fact that Tone Deft's bilious lamentations are a sin against nature, one can consecrate one's life to the service of a noble idea or a glorious ideology. Tone Deft, however, is more likely to burn books. He has announced his intentions to do everything possible to keep impertinent spoilsports high-handed and distasteful. While doing so may earn Tone Deft a gold star from the mush-for-brains defeatism crowd, I recently informed him that his loyalists resolve a moral failure with an immoral solution. Tone Deft said he'd "look further into the matter." Well, not too much further. After all, we must tell Tone Deft what we all think of him -- and boy, do I have some choice words I'd like to use -- if we are ever to protect our peace, privacy, and safety. Yes, this is a bold, audacious, even unprecedented undertaking. Yes, it lacks any realistic guarantee of success. However, it is an undertaking that we must undeniably pursue because I once told Tone Deft that his handling of the situation has not been a comedy of errors, but a tragedy of errors. How did he respond to that? He proceeded to curse me off using a number of colorful expletives not befitting this letter, which serves only to show that Tone Deft's primary goal is to subvert our country's legal system. All of his other objectives are secondary to this one supreme purpose. That's why you must always remember that Tone Deft, already oppressive with his unprincipled, doctrinaire circulars, will perhaps be the ultimate exterminator of our human species -- if separate species we be -- for his reserve of unguessed horrors could never be borne by mortal brains if loosed upon the world. If you think that that's a frightening thought then consider that Tone Deft once tried convincing me that some people deserve to feel safe while others do not. Does he think I was born yesterday? I mean, it seems pretty obvious that if you think you can escape from Tone Deft's stupid smear tactics, then good-bye and good luck. To the rest of you I suggest that his goal is to make a big deal out of nothing. How hotheaded is that? How indelicate? How vindictive? To Mr. Tone Deft, acting like a blockish politico is a lot of fun. So I give you this letter. I hope it helps.

Crash
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Post by Crash » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:39 pm

Ok, we've reached the spam-point. Every get into the shelters or evacuate iimmediately.
HAL: I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission. And I want to help you.

nebulae
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Post by nebulae » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:40 pm

To respond to all of Mr. Timur AKA Crash's beliefs (as I would certainly not call them logically reasoned arguments) would take up too much room and time. I would like to address the most petty ones, though. You see, I sincerely believe that I would sooner let Timur AKA Crash force me to sell my soul to the devil than become one of his mercenaries. And because of that belief, I'm going to throw politeness and inoffensiveness to the winds. In this letter, I'm going to be as rude and crude as I know how, to reinforce the point that if the human race is to survive on this planet, we will have to even the score and encourage others to do the same.

Any rational argument must acknowledge this. Timur AKA Crash's brutal communications, naturally, do not. Try as I may, I can't understand why Timur AKA Crash would want to replace law and order with anarchy and despotism. While the concept of broad-based peace and social justice coalitions remains desirable, his lamentations cannot stand on their own merit. That's why they're dependent on elaborate artifices and explanatory stories to convince us that oligarchism forms the core of any utopian society. Let me end this letter by challenging my readers to put Mr. Timur AKA Crash's morbid ideologies out to pasture. Are you with me, or with the forces of metagrobolism and oppression?

sparklepuff
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Post by sparklepuff » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:41 pm

I just really, really wish they could fix the bug where several of my tracks in arrange view turn gray and won't play back properly. Really wears me out.

Fix it or I'm going to mail a box of Hermés scarfs tainted with a cheap whores perfume to your offices.

nebulae
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Post by nebulae » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:42 pm

sparklepuff wrote: Fix it or I'm going to mail a box of Hermés scarfs tainted with a cheap whores perfume to your offices.
Dude, that's not the kind of incentive they need.



































































Which perfumes, exactly?

hoffman2k
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Post by hoffman2k » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:44 pm

Crash wrote:Ok, we've reached the spam-point. Every get into the shelters or evacuate iimmediately.

:lol:

Wonderful perception of spam you have Sik. What do you call what you've been doing?
It would help to know the definition, been looking for a wiki page on your sort.
There's always something.. Silver bullet, wooden stake, Meecrob, logic, water, that heel thingie from that achilles guy, etc...

Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:45 pm

sparklepuff wrote:Fix it or I'm going to mail a box of Hermés scarfs tainted with a cheap whores perfume to your offices.
send them to their wives.
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

nebulae
Posts: 15716
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 12:16 am
Location: New Orleans
Contact:

Post by nebulae » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:46 pm

Tone Deft wrote:
sparklepuff wrote:Fix it or I'm going to mail a box of Hermés scarfs tainted with a cheap whores perfume to your offices.
send them to their wives.
now we've got a plan! we'll have to inspect them first.

j2j
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Post by j2j » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:47 pm

James Fowler wrote: A whole generation of people are growing up thinking apps like music and DAWs are just files they dload off a computer, obviously free.
That is poor and irresponsible parenting. It is also complete ignorance, as people think that intellectual property is public domain.

Jams Fowler wrote: If Reaper generated income through advertising or selling to business then they could afford good marketing and dominate with a free app. I'm not saying I know the answer to a successful DAW product I'm just saying companies need to adjust how they generate income, we (the paying, legit users) will not subsidize losses to piracy forever.

That is an interesting question. How much exactly do paying users subsidize the loss of revenue in software companies?

Honestly, I can't answer that. I do have a feeling that, if everybody bought the product, the companies would have more money to invest, thereby putting out more innovation, and quality. They would also profit more, so I don't know how much profit would go back into pockets, or product development.

Reaper, imho, is not nearly as extensive as Live, Logic, Cubase, Protools.

James Fowler wrote: Abelton is like insurance, a product nobody actually wants. People want to make music and be creative, Ableton just happens to allow them to realize some of that creativity. I mean I use a lot of VSTs that are free and brilliant! so we know it doesn't need to cost anything and it is that which keeps piracy alive.
I disagree completely. I totally want Ableton, and if I didn't I'd use Logic . People can be creative and make music with anything, guitars, drums computers, beer bottles. Ableton is certainly not unique in the fact that it lets people be creative. Ableton is unique in the fact that it is a fantastic DAW.

I use some freeware as well, and I think you would be hard pressed to find freeware software of the same quality as PSP, Cakewalk, Ableton, Native-Instruments.

Are there a few good freeware synths? YES!! is there a freeware Rapture? Not on a bet. Is there a freeware equivalent of Ableton? No. Reaktor? No. I guess max has pure data, but not really, cause Cycling has developed Max so far beyond PD.

There is an easy argument to make, as to why you ought use payware software, at least the best of the best, and what you can afford.
too many lasers...

sparklepuff
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Post by sparklepuff » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:49 pm

nebulae wrote:
sparklepuff wrote: Fix it or I'm going to mail a box of Hermés scarfs tainted with a cheap whores perfume to your offices.
Dude, that's not the kind of incentive they need.
No? You think Gerhard would allow that type of tragedy take place?

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