Sample flippers/beat makers - How do YOU chop your samples?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
logic_user99
Posts: 1965
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

Sample flippers/beat makers - How do YOU chop your samples?

Post by logic_user99 » Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:08 am

I know a subject like this is like a magician sharing his secrets, but it's something that I'd really like to know more about.

I've been toying around with a bunch of stuff to try and expand my horizons a touch, but I just can't get that 'gold' going on. It's the melodic stuff that isn't working right now... drum breaks are all good!

Anyone care to share some tips for chopping up them lovely breaks?

(sorry if this has been asked before; a search didn't really yield much!)
Macbook | Live 7.0.18 |

UKRuss
Posts: 5044
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:32 am

Post by UKRuss » Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:29 am

I tend to just slice up audio using CTRL/Apple E and re-arrange, then effect as necessary.

I've never had much luck with the random slicers like beat repeat and supatrigger etc. with melodic material.

I do have some luck with say running a guitar loop through some returns with said effects on and tweak and record the whole lot into arrange view for say 10 minutes. In that 10 minutes somewhere you find say 2 mins worth of 'gold' which you then slice out and keep.

Warminstrel
Posts: 498
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:40 am
Location: Bristol, South West, UK
Contact:

Post by Warminstrel » Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:50 am

I used to use ctrl/e but these days I just highlight/drag/drop as its much quicker.

I also use that funky 'Slice to new midi track' feature (when i remember it).

creature
Posts: 832
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:03 pm
Location: Derby, UK
Contact:

Post by creature » Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:46 am

For me its a combination of good old fashioned CTRL+E, beat repeat, Audio Damages Replicant and dBlue Glitch. I have used audio mulch a few times to really bugger the crap out of a loop too, always good fun :-)

logic_user99
Posts: 1965
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

Post by logic_user99 » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:47 pm

Ah, see I'd forgotten about the Apple+E & arrange page... D'oh! Might try that to see what cuts I can get; I need to better the RZA!

When y'all use the 'slice to MIDI' function, do you chop from warp points (that you've set up) or do you go with a straight 1/4 or 8th note chop? I'm a big fan of the 1/4 note cuts when I've got a ready-to-go hot sample...

ALSO! Do you use record quantizing when playing with your cut samples?

Might post a couple of samples for y'all to flip later on if you're game...
Macbook | Live 7.0.18 |

SuperBassMexican
Posts: 255
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 10:33 am
Location: Houston
Contact:

Post by SuperBassMexican » Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:50 pm

logic_user99 wrote:
Might post a couple of samples for y'all to flip later on if you're game...
Ya'll ! lol that's Texas slang.
apple macbook 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 2GB 250GB, Presonus Firebox, Live 7 SWEET , Micron , LV2 , Padkontrol , Oxygen 8 , Korg Er-1 MK II , Juno 106 , Kaoss 3, Mackie 802

http://www.myspace.com/destroy281

SuperBassMexican
Posts: 255
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 10:33 am
Location: Houston
Contact:

Post by SuperBassMexican » Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:52 pm

I want recycle.
apple macbook 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo 2GB 250GB, Presonus Firebox, Live 7 SWEET , Micron , LV2 , Padkontrol , Oxygen 8 , Korg Er-1 MK II , Juno 106 , Kaoss 3, Mackie 802

http://www.myspace.com/destroy281

DJ VAKIS
Posts: 2084
Joined: Sun Oct 31, 2004 7:26 am
Location: MUNICH-GERMANY
Contact:

Post by DJ VAKIS » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:01 pm

SuperBassMexican wrote:I want recycle.
I sale it for 180 EURO!
http://www.myspace.com/djvakis
http://mix2r.fm/audio/user/221


----------------------------------------
MacBookPro 13" Core 2 Duo 2.26Ghz 2GB
Live 8 -Operator -Sampler
AKAI LPD8-GENELEC 1029A-iPhone runing TouchOSC.

t1mp
Posts: 371
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 6:44 pm
Location: Concord, CA
Contact:

Post by t1mp » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:44 pm

_mlr

Angstrom
Posts: 14713
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Contact:

Post by Angstrom » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:06 pm

I slice it all up on the arrangement page because I like seeing it all laid out "on the top level" if you know what I mean.

Although "slice to MIDI" was greatly demanded by a lot of people I don't really use it myself because it buries the actual waves at least three levels down into the interface.
Slice to midi goes like this:
move markers about, slice to new track, click midi roll view, see mysterious black dots, tab to Sampler, open zones, try and draw a mental connection between these two panels that I am not allowed to see at the same time, play a note, tab back to midi view, forget what I wanted to do.

No thanks. That is not fun.

Simple Method
I drag the wave to arrangement and Ctrl& E (chop) it where I need to and then move the slices about to make it conform to what I have in my head.

Benefits of Arrangement over session slicing
  • You can pick a particular beat (chopped clip) and move it's start marker to pick another hit
  • You can apply a pitch envelope to each note
  • You can apply warping and different warping to each note
  • You can apply different effect envelopes and see all the envelopes at once
  • You can see your breakbeat alongside other tracks and visually compare the timing
  • You can tint and name different beat/clips very quickly to represent different things "middle section", "hard fill", etc.
  • Your wave and your timing information are all represented in one view on the top level of interaction, rather than in two mutually exclusive views of nested interaction
all in all arrangement absolutely whups session and Slice to Midi, that's why I do pretty much all my beat making in Arrangement

logic_user99
Posts: 1965
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

Post by logic_user99 » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:48 pm

Angstrom wrote:I slice it all up on the arrangement page because I like seeing it all laid out "on the top level" if you know what I mean.

Although "slice to MIDI" was greatly demanded by a lot of people I don't really use it myself because it buries the actual waves at least three levels down into the interface.
Slice to midi goes like this:
move markers about, slice to new track, click midi roll view, see mysterious black dots, tab to Sampler, open zones, try and draw a mental connection between these two panels that I am not allowed to see at the same time, play a note, tab back to midi view, forget what I wanted to do.

No thanks. That is not fun.

Simple Method
I drag the wave to arrangement and Ctrl& E (chop) it where I need to and then move the slices about to make it conform to what I have in my head.

Benefits of Arrangement over session slicing
  • You can pick a particular beat (chopped clip) and move it's start marker to pick another hit
  • You can apply a pitch envelope to each note
  • You can apply warping and different warping to each note
  • You can apply different effect envelopes and see all the envelopes at once
  • You can see your breakbeat alongside other tracks and visually compare the timing
  • You can tint and name different beat/clips very quickly to represent different things "middle section", "hard fill", etc.
  • Your wave and your timing information are all represented in one view on the top level of interaction, rather than in two mutually exclusive views of nested interaction
all in all arrangement absolutely whups session and Slice to Midi, that's why I do pretty much all my beat making in Arrangement
Comprehensive, Angstrom! Sounds like you've got some serious method going on right there.

The main reason I use 'slice to MIDI' is because I want to try and get as much 'MPC emulation' out of live as I possibly can; I do use waveform editing to set the chop points, but I don't want it as in depth as the arrange page... Then, everything is played via the MPD rather than programmed in.

Got a super-tight sample that I want to use later, so I'll try out the arrange page chopping!
Macbook | Live 7.0.18 |

Mesmer
Posts: 589
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:29 pm
Location: Sunny San Juan, PR

Post by Mesmer » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:56 pm

t1mp wrote:_mlr
+1
http://www.mesmero.net
---
Image
---
Hidden Driveways wrote:This doesn't answer your question at all, but I said it anyway simply for the joy of making a post.

logic_user99
Posts: 1965
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:58 pm
Location: Nottingham, UK

Post by logic_user99 » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:15 pm

Mesmer wrote:
t1mp wrote:_mlr
+1
Was ist das? :lol:
Macbook | Live 7.0.18 |

Angstrom
Posts: 14713
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Contact:

Post by Angstrom » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:28 pm

logic_user99 wrote:
Angstrom wrote:

Benefits of Arrangement over session slicing
  • You can pick a particular beat (chopped clip) and move it's start marker to pick another hit
  • You can apply a pitch envelope to each note
  • You can apply warping and different warping to each note
  • You can apply different effect envelopes and see all the envelopes at once
  • You can see your breakbeat alongside other tracks and visually compare the timing
  • You can tint and name different beat/clips very quickly to represent different things "middle section", "hard fill", etc.
  • Your wave and your timing information are all represented in one view on the top level of interaction, rather than in two mutually exclusive views of nested interaction
all in all arrangement absolutely whups session and Slice to Midi, that's why I do pretty much all my beat making in Arrangement
Comprehensive, Angstrom! Sounds like you've got some serious method going on right there.

The main reason I use 'slice to MIDI' is because I want to try and get as much 'MPC emulation' out of live as I possibly can; I do use waveform editing to set the chop points, but I don't want it as in depth as the arrange page... Then, everything is played via the MPD rather than programmed in.

Got a super-tight sample that I want to use later, so I'll try out the arrange page chopping!
Well, you must bear in mind that my method is pretty much the OPPOSITE of the MPC method. And it can seem like insanity the first time you try and do it.

MPC method benefits of beat making are (of course), in hitting pads and making beats on the fly. Which is great fun to whack in a beat.
So the method I mention is no-where near as 'fun' on a immediate level. Especially as it takes a while to get a hang of doing it this way if you are used to 'loading a kit and slamming some pads'.

But as I said - there are some plus-sides to my technique, but those are mainly dependant upon you having a good mental image of what you are setting out to achieve.


In summary

MPC style Benefits : annoying to slice up and hard to edit and mutate the sounds graphically, but great fun to whack in the actual beats

Arrangement Benefits easy to slice and edit graphically, easy to mutate the sounds , but no fun to be had in whacking pads.

Angstrom
Posts: 14713
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:22 pm
Contact:

Post by Angstrom » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:28 pm

logic_user99 wrote:
Angstrom wrote:

Benefits of Arrangement over session slicing
  • You can pick a particular beat (chopped clip) and move it's start marker to pick another hit
  • You can apply a pitch envelope to each note
  • You can apply warping and different warping to each note
  • You can apply different effect envelopes and see all the envelopes at once
  • You can see your breakbeat alongside other tracks and visually compare the timing
  • You can tint and name different beat/clips very quickly to represent different things "middle section", "hard fill", etc.
  • Your wave and your timing information are all represented in one view on the top level of interaction, rather than in two mutually exclusive views of nested interaction
all in all arrangement absolutely whups session and Slice to Midi, that's why I do pretty much all my beat making in Arrangement
Comprehensive, Angstrom! Sounds like you've got some serious method going on right there.

The main reason I use 'slice to MIDI' is because I want to try and get as much 'MPC emulation' out of live as I possibly can; I do use waveform editing to set the chop points, but I don't want it as in depth as the arrange page... Then, everything is played via the MPD rather than programmed in.

Got a super-tight sample that I want to use later, so I'll try out the arrange page chopping!
Well, you must bear in mind that my method is pretty much the OPPOSITE of the MPC method. And it can seem like insanity the first time you try and do it.

MPC method benefits of beat making are (of course), in hitting pads and making beats on the fly. Which is great fun to whack in a beat.
So the method I mention is no-where near as 'fun' on a immediate level. Especially as it takes a while to get a hang of doing it this way if you are used to 'loading a kit and slamming some pads'.

But as I said - there are some plus-sides to my technique, but those are mainly dependant upon you having a good mental image of what you are setting out to achieve.


In summary

MPC style Benefits : annoying to slice up and hard to edit and mutate the sounds graphically, but great fun to whack in the actual beats

Arrangement Benefits easy to slice and edit graphically, easy to mutate the sounds , but no fun to be had in whacking pads.

----

oh I forgot - of course, once you start editing beats in arrangement - Session is dead to you, because you can't have complicated clips in session. That's a major drawback. And why I am always asking for "MetaClips" ... Session clips that can hold complicated chopped up clips.

Post Reply