Any guitarists here actually gigging with VST's?

Kent_in_CO · Post by **Kent_in_CO** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:10 pm

Guitar Rig, Amplitube, and their amp modeling counterparts all produce some wicked sounds. For versatility and convenience in the studio, they're pretty sweet. But is anyone playing out with these?

The concept sounds appealing. (I plan on playing my guitar over material I write in Live). Just go into a DI box (I have a Line 6 Tone Port) and use a dedicated channel in Live for guitar. From there, the sky's the limit. So chalk one up for creativity, using crazy FX, and being able to pull off studio tricks in a live setting.

It would also be easier to set up the sound. No need to run a soundcheck with an amp, mic it for the venue (if needed), and balance its monitoring with what's coming out of Live. Simply treat the guitar channel as another track, along with all the other output coming out of the laptop.

But my background as a guitarist says there's just something wrong with this. I have a bias-modded 5150 head, and holy crap does it sound nice live. You guitarists know what I'm talking about; when you're pushing real tubes, the feel and tone is incomparable. And I worry that piped through a club PA, the VST/amp modeling tone would lose its bite and impact.

Any thoughts?

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:18 pm

I think the conventional wisdom is that any great tube amp will smoke the software, but you're basically stuck with that one sound, as opposed to software where you're, as you said, unlimited.

I have started using GR3 pretty religiously, and am now at a point where I can coax some good sounds out of it. But it's not easy to do...having been spoiled by Pod for years.

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:23 pm

a friend of mine has been gigging for years with Guitar Rig. he tells stories of his tone giving engineers grins. but he REALLY knows what he's doing and has great pitch.

YMWDV (...will definitely vary.)

hacktheplanet · Post by **hacktheplanet** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:25 pm

I haven't gigged with software yet, and I probably won't. But sometimes I like to run my bass through some effects during band practice. It's pretty fun, but I like keeping an analog signal path for my bass.
My EH pedals sound much better than any plugin I've tried.

On the other hand, if there were a situation where I couldn't run my bass stack, I'd probably use a Sans Amp Bass Driver DI box. Those are pretty sick ass.

sparklepuff · Post by **sparklepuff** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:25 pm

I've gigged out with Guitar Rig over the past 2 years, never had 1 single crash. And as you pointed out, set up is a freaking breeze. No sound check required, no mic's to bump into, no 80 pound amp to drag around. It's unbelievably easy to gig with Guitar Rig. And I also used it on a track in Live and at the same time performed many other parts for the band using Live. Pretty sweet setup.

glitchrock-buddha · Post by **glitchrock-buddha** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:31 pm

I've played in bars with Guitar Rig. I think it gives pretty good tone, it's just strange to hear the guitar only come out of the P.A. so you need good monitoring. I've also set up other people to play through my setup and sometimes people notice the latency and don't like it. And this is with a meager 10ms in/out of my interface. But I guess when you add that to the P.A. system, it can add up. Whereas normally you'd hear it straight from the amp, even if it was mic'ed, when using VSTs, you monitoring through the system, so it can be a noticeable difference.

Homebelly · Post by **Homebelly** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:36 pm

Its all about the operator..
I've seen some big name bands playing live in huge arenas using software based amps run on computers even though they have a fully lit up back line full of marshal's..this scenario will guarantee the same sound every night.

To the audience it will sound as good or bad as you want it too.
The biggest mistake people make going down this route is to build a sound or tone that is a carbon copy of a recorded version, lots of compression and reverb..
This type of tone will sound small and boxed in live situation amplified through a PA...
It can also be about the power amp.. If you use a tube based power amp then that will color the sim,, this can be good or bad... My personal opinion would be to use a very good MOSFET power amp.
Stereo is the next problem area, every guitar sim user seems t think they have to build huge stereo fields of sound, again this will be heard from the audience perspective as small and boxy, or will lack definition..
Best way around this is to go the two amp route and tune each amp tone slightly differently and only use stereo FX as a special effect,,

I love tube amps.. noting beats them,,
But they also come with lots of finicky aspects, not the least of them being they are loud and need to reach a sweet spot to create tone,,, there is no sound worse in my mind than an under powered tube amp that relies on a distortion pedal and preamp gain the get tone...
This is where amp modeling rules...

Homebelly · Post by **Homebelly** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:50 pm

sparklepuff wrote:I've gigged out with Guitar Rig over the past 2 years, never had 1 single crash. And as you pointed out, set up is a freaking breeze. No sound check required, no mic's to bump into, no 80 pound amp to drag around. It's unbelievably easy to gig with Guitar Rig. And I also used it on a track in Live and at the same time performed many other parts for the band using Live. Pretty sweet setup.

What is your set up?
Are you using Rig Control?
How do you amplify it?
How are you integrating it with LIVE?
What computer are you using???

Dan Venne posts every once in a while.
He and Christopher Willits have been an inspiration for me to try and get some kind of live/guitar set up working..
I have a pod X3L, and i recently dug my FCB1010 out..
I'm not sure where to go with it next, but i'm not in a clear state of mind to figure it out either as work is piling up on me till the xmas break...
I kinda sorta see me trying out some kind of Robert Fripp/ R.L Burnside type mish mash...

sparklepuff · Post by **sparklepuff** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:00 pm

MacBook Pro, Rig Control 3, RME FF400.

The Fireface goes right into the board, I use headphones to monitor myself and the other sounds I'm making.

GR just sits on a track with monitoring "In" so the guitar is always playing through it. I can also utilize my crazy ass effects I use and manipulate that with my hands, which is an interesting new way to play guitar, play some shit, loop it, then fuck it up on my lemur. Really cool. In addition with the great snapshot abilities in GR, which is nice an immediate.

It's true that it can sound really flat and small with presets that have compression or other significant tone processing, I find it best to send the rawest guitar signal out. Definitely minimize the "air" setting on the cabs and whatnot.

Homebelly · Post by **Homebelly** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:12 pm

sparklepuff wrote:MacBook Pro, Rig Control 3, RME FF400.

The Fireface goes right into the board, I use headphones to monitor myself and the other sounds I'm making.

GR just sits on a track with monitoring "In" so the guitar is always playing through it. I can also utilize my crazy ass effects I use and manipulate that with my hands, which is an interesting new way to play guitar, play some shit, loop it, then fuck it up on my lemur. Really cool. In addition with the great snapshot abilities in GR, which is nice an immediate.

It's true that it can sound really flat and small with presets that have compression or other significant tone processing, I find it best to send the rawest guitar signal out. Definitely minimize the "air" setting on the cabs and whatnot.

So, your not using the RC3 as a sound card?

Are you triggering any pre-prepared loops?

I've got this kinda half baked idea of getting a couple of MIDI kick drum triggers and setting up some impulses to play kick and snare with my feet...
Then looping my guitar in real time to build up arrangements ...
Maybe get a hex pickup and play my ION off of my guitar also...
All the while controling live with the FCB1010...

Have i just high jacked this thread?

kristoffer1989 · Post by **kristoffer1989** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:45 pm

i heard that AC/DC used Amplitude for two of their songs on the new album...

vanceg · Post by **vanceg** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:21 am

Yes, I play out and jam at home and other local studios with friends very frequently and I ALWAYS run my guitar through Live and a plethora of plugins, including Guitar Rig and the Waves GTR bundle. Basically I use Live as my signal routing and MIDI mapping environment as well as a real-time looper.

Signal starts in a Roland VG-99, goes from there to an RME Fireface 400 interface into a MacBook Pro 2.33, into Live for significant processing and control using the Roland FC-300 MIDI footpedal and a Lemur, and then back out (surround) through the RME to a set of 4 powered speakers.

Works like a charm.

Have no fear of the laptop at the guitar gig!

Vance

Kent_in_CO wrote:Guitar Rig, Amplitube, and their amp modeling counterparts all produce some wicked sounds. For versatility and convenience in the studio, they're pretty sweet. But is anyone playing out with these?

The concept sounds appealing. (I plan on playing my guitar over material I write in Live). Just go into a DI box (I have a Line 6 Tone Port) and use a dedicated channel in Live for guitar. From there, the sky's the limit. So chalk one up for creativity, using crazy FX, and being able to pull off studio tricks in a live setting.

It would also be easier to set up the sound. No need to run a soundcheck with an amp, mic it for the venue (if needed), and balance its monitoring with what's coming out of Live. Simply treat the guitar channel as another track, along with all the other output coming out of the laptop.

But my background as a guitarist says there's just something wrong with this. I have a bias-modded 5150 head, and holy crap does it sound nice live. You guitarists know what I'm talking about; when you're pushing real tubes, the feel and tone is incomparable. And I worry that piped through a club PA, the VST/amp modeling tone would lose its bite and impact.

Any thoughts?

Meef Chaloin · Post by **Meef Chaloin** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:40 am

you're all actually monitoring the guitar going through live? That's interesting, im using v-amp at the moment but im not happy with it & cant get low enough latencies to monitor after ableton processing. maybe the laptop im getting will change this....

do you record straight in to the soundcard or run it through a preamp or DI first?

kaffein · Post by **kaffein** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:41 am

Pod Farm hasn't crashed Ableton Live for me once... So I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that it's safe to use in a live situation...

Homebelly · Post by **Homebelly** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:46 am

kaffein wrote:Pod Farm .

What are you thinking on this?
I'm loving it!
I'm almost ready to say it sounds better than the actual pod X3...
A very cool addition...

Any guitarists here actually gigging with VST's?

Any guitarists here actually gigging with VST's?

Re: Any guitarists here actually gigging with VST's?