The Big Three lol

last man on earth · Post by **last man on earth** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:21 pm

I guess I won't be laughing after the shit hits the fan, but this was kinda funny

j2j · Post by **j2j** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:24 pm

Hilarious and pathetic. A two for one.

Peace buddy....

ethios4 · Post by **ethios4** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:43 pm

Exactly. Not once have I seen mention of the fact that American car companies are failing because American cars SUCK ASS!!

Mike Goodwin · Post by **Mike Goodwin** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:55 pm

That just about sums up my feelings. To bad that putting thousands out of work sucks even more. Quite a situation.

GrooveNinja · Post by **GrooveNinja** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:49 pm

ethios4 wrote:Exactly. Not once have I seen mention of the fact that American car companies are failing because American cars SUCK ASS!!

Really? I've put 150,000 miles on my Ford Ranger, and all I've done with it is change the spark plugs at 100,000 miles and the clutch master cylinder at 140,000 miles. It has never broken down. I can't say that for my Acura Integra, which consistently broke down every six months after about 70,000 miles. Exhaust, alternator, water pump, axles, CV joints, brakes, brakes, brakes, exhaust, pretty much everything. I finally got rid of it at about 130,000 miles. It was the same deal with my Toyota Corolla, except that the problems started at 60,000 miles. Jap crap! I had a '76 Chevy Nova that I tried very hard to kill, but couldn't do it. That thing was indestructable! I have a 2002 BMW with 50,000 miles on it, and neither of the front power seats work, the power sunroof doesn't work, the dashboard LCD it missing major amounts of pixels, and the stereo/computer LCD is missing major amounts of pixels. It has been mechanically sounds so far, though. So anyone who says that American cars suck ass is a no-nothing moron. Unless, or course, they are talking about the many "American" cars that are just rebadged Korean or Jap garbage.

GrooveNinja · Post by **GrooveNinja** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:51 pm

Mike Goodwin wrote:That just about sums up my feelings. To bad that putting thousands out of work sucks even more. Quite a situation.

Perhaps American car companies cannot compete because their costs are too high? Perhaps the unions are the problem?

last man on earth · Post by **last man on earth** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:00 pm

I've got a '91 Toyota 4 runner which is solid as a tank and is only giving me issues after over 220,000 miles...I've got to get the starter rebuilt, and the ac doesn't work, but where I live, it's no big deal. It's been a killer truck, although it sat in front of my house from the time gas went over $2 till now. My girl's '03 honda civic is killer, too - no problems, easy on gas, and we still take road trips to see the 'rents, and do it in comfort.

beats me · Post by **beats me** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:01 pm

GrooveNinja wrote:
Mike Goodwin wrote:That just about sums up my feelings. To bad that putting thousands out of work sucks even more. Quite a situation.
Perhaps American car companies cannot compete because their costs are too high? Perhaps the unions are the problem?

Yeah, gone is the utopia where a guy can get paid $85 an hour to turn a wrench clockwise all day and continue to get paid $70 an hour indefinately after being laid off and not working at all.

last man on earth · Post by **last man on earth** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:06 pm

GrooveNinja wrote:
Mike Goodwin wrote:That just about sums up my feelings. To bad that putting thousands out of work sucks even more. Quite a situation.
Perhaps American car companies cannot compete because their costs are too high? Perhaps the unions are the problem?

I'd say that bureaucracy, inefficiency, and corporate elitism are the real problems within the auto industry - people who don't know how to do the job right are still collecting massive paychecks as though they aren't the problem, which is total bullshit, and yeah, the unions are full of shit, but if they weren't looking out for the employees, the bosses would be collecting even bigger checks, while the employees make shit money working shit hours, and we'd still be in the mess we're in today. Personally, I wonder how close the oil companies and the auto companies are - how much business would the oil companies lose if the big three crashed, or came up with a truly viable electric car (which could have been done over a decade ago, anyway).

Also, the Japanese auto companies have a lockdown on efficiency, and I have yet to hear any argument pointing out otherwise.

pepezabala · Post by **pepezabala** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:13 pm

GrooveNinja wrote:
Mike Goodwin wrote:That just about sums up my feelings. To bad that putting thousands out of work sucks even more. Quite a situation.
Perhaps American car companies cannot compete because their costs are too high? Perhaps the unions are the problem?

They don't sell any more cars because there are too many cars already. According to your post you own three?

beats me · Post by **beats me** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:19 pm

People who work in the American auto manufacturing industry have lived in a vacuum for too long from the top down. Everybody involved has made stupid money and everybody has to go down with the ship. People who live in car manufacturing cities have a sense of entitlement that, that is just what they will do for the rest of their lives while most of us are lucky to stick with a company more than 5 years. I don't feel any more sympathy for them than anybody else getting laid off from any other company. So let's welcome them to the real world and hope they saved up some of that large salary.

xherv · Post by **xherv** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:37 pm

GrooveNinja wrote: Perhaps American car companies cannot compete because their costs are too high? Perhaps the unions are the problem?

This is one factor, I'm hesitant to lay blame at the feet of unions but in this case they are part of the problem. A huge component in union/management bargaining is skyrocketing health care costs which isn't exactly either side's fault, but some of the wages and compensations are too high.

The other thing that's hammering the industry is the type of cars people are looking for. Auto manufacturing is a freightliner that doesn't turn on a dime (years and years of development and tooling lines for mass manufacturing). American production lines are generally set up for heavy-duty SUVs or trucks etc., which sell well across the globe and to businesses, and are high quality. Unfortunately we've also been selling them to soccer moms or guys with desk jobs in metropolitan areas. This is because the profit margin for these vehicles is sky-high compared to Toyota-size vehicles, possibly tens of thousands of dollars versus a max of maybe five thousand.

Prior to $4.00 gas, SUV/Truck class vehicles were over half of what American manufacturers were making in total automobiles, and approaching that in what Americans bought.

Germans, thank you for the VW TDI Jetta (45+ mpg on the highway). You can thank me for Apple or Google or something. We have good trucks and great tractors and construction equipment.

last man on earth · Post by **last man on earth** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:38 pm

beats me wrote:People who work in the American auto manufacturing industry have lived in a vacuum for too long from the top down. Everybody involved has made stupid money and everybody has to go down with the ship. People who live in car manufacturing cities have a sense of entitlement that, that is just what they will do for the rest of their lives while most of us are lucky to stick with a company more than 5 years. I don't feel any more sympathy for them than anybody else getting laid off from any other company. So let's welcome them to the real world and hope they saved up some of that large salary.

Agreed. I also think that basing the health of a community on one business is a bad idea from the get go, and is bound to go bad at some point.

doc holiday · Post by **doc holiday** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:42 pm

GrooveNinja wrote:
Mike Goodwin wrote:That just about sums up my feelings. To bad that putting thousands out of work sucks even more. Quite a situation.
Perhaps American car companies cannot compete because their costs are too high? Perhaps the unions are the problem?

thats the cars they make in mexico right?

go to flint michigan and see what the big three did to the people who built them up to who they used to be.

beats me · Post by **beats me** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:50 pm

last man on earth wrote:
beats me wrote:People who work in the American auto manufacturing industry have lived in a vacuum for too long from the top down. Everybody involved has made stupid money and everybody has to go down with the ship. People who live in car manufacturing cities have a sense of entitlement that, that is just what they will do for the rest of their lives while most of us are lucky to stick with a company more than 5 years. I don't feel any more sympathy for them than anybody else getting laid off from any other company. So let's welcome them to the real world and hope they saved up some of that large salary.
Agreed. I also think that basing the health of a community on one business is a bad idea from the get go, and is bound to go bad at some point.

Agreed on that too. Warning: HIGHLY INFLAMMATORY STATEMENT AHEAD: I live in the Silicon Valley and when the dot com bubble burst it didn't turn into a ghost town with a high crime rate. That's because the industry was largely driven by highly educated people who just adapted after a speed bump. In the case of auto manufacturing cities you have a lot of under educated (not all) people who wouldn't know what to do with their lives if the big three didn't issue them a job at birth. So they turn into a high crime city with people roaming like zombies.

So the big three created a corporate welfare state to calm the masses. At the same time they moved at a snails pace expanding their portfolio with blinders on. Anybody who says they didn't see this coming is an idiot. What some people in the states don't know is they manufacture small fuel effiecent vehicles in places like Europe that do quite well but they don't sell them in the states.

I really can't wait to see the documentary on this when it's all over.