How much reverb do you use?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Enrique
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Post by Enrique » Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:11 pm

Here we are again, reverb, my favourite subject...
Grappadura wrote:Generally I use them as inserts, because one soaked instrument is enough for me.
Just keep in mind that working with insert reverbs also means limitation. I can't really see any advantages over the use of return tracks. Let's say you want to pan the track with the inserted reverb. Well, it is possible, but the reverb will be panned with it. A realistic placement in the room is therefore impossible.

Experiment: Create a track with whatever element panned hard-left. Create a return track with a stereo reverb (don't forget to turn off the dry amount). Send a fair amount of the hard-left panned signal to the reverb. What do you hear? Yeah, the right channel of the panorama still produces reverb. Now, create another track with the same element panned hard-left, only this time you'll use your reverb as an insert. Result: No sound on the right channel of the panorama! Draw your own conclusion. This experiment of course only makes sense with a good stereo reverb (true stereo would be even better)...

Everything you can do with an insert reverb, is also possible with a return reverb, but not vice versa. Returns are much more flexible. One trick I already mentioned in another thread, is to send an instrument (take a short percussion sound for instance) to your return-reverb (take a small room) and set your send to "pre" (not "post"). Now pan your instrument "30" (Live value) to the left and your return-track "30" to the right. Adjust the send amount. This is a great way to make your sounds extremely wide!

I could give countless other examples of situations where a return reverb makes more sense than an insert...

And reverb isn't only a depth tool, like said by someone else in this thread, it's also a width tool. It works in two dimensions! Also worth mentioning: decreasing the width of sound, increases the depth. Think about it. So, if you want an element to appear farer away, make both, itself and its reverb mono! Cutting off the highs also helps to achieve this far away effect.

And Grappa, I can't wait to visit that radarstation with you and Wallace sometime, I think I will love it...

GrooveNinja
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Post by GrooveNinja » Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:12 pm

xherv wrote:
nebulae wrote:
xherv wrote: This is extremely phallic and this track should sound incredibly sexy.
The reason this is phallic is that this is a life-sized replica of my genitals.
Including the one testicle that's kind of rolled off into the surrounding countryside!??
No it's not, he just has a very large, floppy scrotum.

Coupe70
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Post by Coupe70 » Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:41 pm

polyslax wrote: The old rule of thumb that you bring up the send on a track until you notice the space, then back it off a bit works well.
I've read this rule very often.
Is it "noticeing the space" in the mix or with only listening to the track you are working on ?
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Grappadura
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Post by Grappadura » Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:47 pm

Ok, I think by now I realize its good to have the reverb on the return, and just a single instance, unless I wanna go experimental. thx to all this has been really helpful.

SubFunk
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Post by SubFunk » Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:48 pm

Coupe70 wrote:
polyslax wrote: The old rule of thumb that you bring up the send on a track until you notice the space, then back it off a bit works well.
I've read this rule very often.
Is it "noticeing the space" in the mix or with only listening to the track you are working on ?
the mix,

the best advise ever given to me from an audio engineer was:

NEVER ISOLATE A SOUND, LEARN TO LISTEN ALWAYS TO THE WHOLE PICTURE!

he, by the way had his solo buttons on his neve console all taped up with gaffa!!!

best thing ever!

solo buttons are evil, they should never be used when mixing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by SubFunk on Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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SubFunk
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Post by SubFunk » Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:49 pm

damn it. this damn server. all the time those nerve wrecking double posts.
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SubFunk
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Post by SubFunk » Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:57 pm

Grappadura wrote:Ok, I think by now I realize its good to have the reverb on the return, and just a single instance, unless I wanna go experimental. thx to all this has been really helpful.
+1 yup, that's the way to go. one single instance on a return and then maybe adding something for the wanted little extra.
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ethios4
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Post by ethios4 » Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:35 pm

Some great tips!
As neb and laird said, the problem is usually too much reverb. Running the track through a mastering limiter will often bring the reverb out even more.

Most of us are probably working in small studio rooms, and that probably increases the tendency to add too much reverb. You go to play your tracks at a club or something and the reverb in the track adds to the natural reverb in the room and creates a muddy mess.

I always remind myself that there will always be another reverb plugin at the end of the chain, called "the room you're playing in".

nebulae
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Post by nebulae » Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:39 pm

^ great advice, ethios!
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Pickle Sprocket
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Post by Pickle Sprocket » Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:49 pm

What about if you try and put the reverb plugin before the instrument you want to pan? Will that keep the reverb from being forced to one side? So it goes Reverb > Sampler > Pan to the right. Does that work?
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nebulae
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Post by nebulae » Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:51 pm

^ won't work - the only instruments that can go in front of a synth instrument are the midi plugs in Live.
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Coupe70
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Post by Coupe70 » Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:51 pm

so we talked about the volume of reverb.
what about eq before or after the reverb, what about decay times,
room sizes and pre-delays ? any tips ?
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nebulae
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Post by nebulae » Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:51 pm

^ but you can do Sampler > Reverb > Pan on the mixer, and that works just fine.
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Enrique
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Post by Enrique » Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:51 pm

Pickle Sprocket wrote:What about if you try and put the reverb plugin before the instrument you want to pan? Will that keep the reverb from being forced to one side? So it goes Reverb > Sampler > Pan to the right. Does that work?
No man, the reverb needs an input or there won't be any reverb.

Enrique
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Post by Enrique » Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:53 pm

I guess I was a couple of seconds late...

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