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 Post subject: No Multi-Core Processor Support for Hyperthreaded P4
PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:59 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:39 pm
Posts: 388
Location: New Hope, PA
Since my machine is now 3½ years old, and hyperthreaded P4 has been supplanted by true multicore processing, I doubt that this will ever change. However, it would be nice if Live would recognize (OK - "recognise") both halves of the hyper-threaded P4 processor and utilize (OK - "utilise") the full core.

Currently, is there ANY way to change the preferences so that multicore support is engaged in this scenario?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:44 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:31 pm
Posts: 240
try this one:

add /NUMPROC=2 to your boot.ini and reboot your system

play with the the multicore/-cpu support switch settings of live then.

no warranties for that, i´m new to ableton live.

nonetheless i doubt that ableton live is programmed for ht atm. i think future ableton live updates will have ht implemented.

why? because intel will launch ht again with its upcoming nehalem cpus. the 8core systems will at least run 16 threads in parallel.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:59 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:39 pm
Posts: 388
Location: New Hope, PA
Yes, I had heard that HT will be implemented again.

Where do I put the NUMPROC switch in the boot.ini?

This is what my boot.ini file looks like:

[boot loader]
timeout=10
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect /3GB
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect /3GB

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:32 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:31 pm
Posts: 240
add it under the operating systems sections

it should look like this

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect /3GB /numproc=2

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:03 pm 

Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:56 am
Posts: 6674
Location: greater toronto area
Most DAW software, audio and MIDI programs and devices recommend you disable hyperthreading.

Cubase, Sonar and Sony (Acid, Vegas and Sound Forge) all claim that the product functions less well with hyper threading enabled.

You can still do quite a lot on a single core machine, but if you want to future proof a bit, you have to accept that a new computer purchase, or extensive upgrading including motherboard etc will be necessary sooner rather than later.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:09 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:53 am
Posts: 3667
@ Ajbbklyn please report back as to how you get on with this little tweak. I have a P4 that has no option in the BIOS to turn the Hyperthreading off. I trust that you also have checked the BIOS for this option?

G.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:17 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:31 pm
Posts: 240
leedsquietman wrote:
Most DAW software, audio and MIDI programs and devices recommend you disable hyperthreading.

Cubase, Sonar and Sony (Acid, Vegas and Sound Forge) all claim that the product functions less well with hyper threading enabled.

You can still do quite a lot on a single core machine, but if you want to future proof a bit, you have to accept that a new computer purchase, or extensive upgrading including motherboard etc will be necessary sooner rather than later.


leedsquietman wrote:
Most DAW software, audio and MIDI programs and devices recommend you disable hyperthreading.


why shouldn´t he try it out? the best thing on this is: it´s free. if it works: even better! he can disable it if he experiences problems. there is no need to make generalizations.

possibly there are applications which behave bad with ht turned on, but that´s another story.

is your comment based on your personal experience? i had a pentium 4 EE 3,2 GHz cpu before i´ve upgraded to multicore systems. ht technology made a notable difference on my old daw. that´s a fact that the processor is handed over more threads and is able to run them in parallel when there is cpu-sided ht support. isn´t that a good thing? you could of course waste cpu resources, but why should Ajbbklyn do this?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:23 pm 

Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:56 am
Posts: 6674
Location: greater toronto area
I'm not saying he shouldn't try it out but Ableton support, Arturia and Steinberg all told me that hyper threading will slow performance on a single core P4 with their product. Steinberg went as far as to say it is 'evil' :)

My P4 chip is 3.2 Ghz with 2GB ram and using dual channel DDR400 on win xp sp3.

I know from personal experience with Cubase SX3 and Live 6 (when I last tried h/t turned on) that it did not boost performance, in fact it made the performance slightly worse. I tell it as my experience is. Perhaps the OP may experience a different result.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:37 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:39 pm
Posts: 388
Location: New Hope, PA
Okay guys - no need to bicker. I appreciate the interest and the help from all sides.

I'm sure there are plenty of programs that recommend the user turn off HT. I happen to have it enabled for my NLE - Avid Liquid.

Prior to posting, I observed Live with and without HT. With hyperthreading enabled, I actually got slightly better performance, despite the fact that the program was only using ½ of the core. Perhaps some other mundane background tasks were being handled by the remainder.

I will try DL's suggestion and edit the boot.ini file. I'll report back.

Thanks to both DL and Leeds.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:40 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:39 pm
Posts: 388
Location: New Hope, PA
Added the switch to both OS's listed in the boot.ini

It seems to have had no effect at all, i.e., Live preferences still show the CPU preference greyed out in the "off" position.

On the bright side, there was no hit to performance. Avid Liquid (my video editing rig) uses both halves of the core equally.

I will check out my XP Home (C://) drive and see if the switch aids any of the myriad other programs on that physical drive.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:13 am 

Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:31 pm
Posts: 240
Ajbbklyn, sorry to hear that it didn´t worked, maybe my first assumption was right (=live doesnt support ht). by the way, no bicker here, only a warm discussion. i concur leedsquietman saying that some applications have bad audio performance with enabled ht. leads said "Steinberg went as far as to say it is 'evil'. maybe steinbergs code is evil ... ;-) afaik digidesign also recommended disabling ht in the system bios when using older version of pro tools , e.g. in version 6.x. why? because the code didn´t support it and showed incompatibilities. pt version 7.x supports ht, nowadays they don´t tell you to turn it off. as Ajbbklyn already mentioned, his avid liquid editing software benefits ftom ht, because it supports ht, simple as that. before telling a user base to disable something, the sw companies should communicate technical issues with honesty to their customers (to admit that the code is not supporting some implemented functionalities of the cpu).

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