not enough utilites, too many unessecary additions...

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
NativeBreaks
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Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:18 am

not enough utilites, too many unessecary additions...

Post by NativeBreaks » Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:22 am

yeah. why in the heck does ableton waste so much effort making little instruments and crap? THEY SHOULD FOCUS ON THE CAPABILITIES OF LIVE.

This is one of those things i noticed about ableton as a new customer. Let's hope they stop making sample libraries and synths n stuff and focus on its dynamics...

Personally, I'd never use any of them. It just seems popular for DAW companies to make their own synths these days. I think this is a big waste of time. Seriously.

Live needs more tools:
Midi quantize plugin for midi tracks. And it might as well have user grooves capabilities....
Also, a plug to translate midi notes to CC's and vise versa. To have the ability to convert the velocity of a midi note into a CC doesn't seem lke much to ask for, and yet, it's not there. I'm really shocked that it hasn't been implemented...
I personally would find this extremely useful since I use a midi drum trigger on my padKontrol to send a volume modulation, but I'm completely left without controlling volume by velocity. In fact, I've found some software on the internet to hack my padKontrol, but it's very risky since I can destroy the OS on it... If I use a midi note instead of CC, then the volume works like a toggle, and there's no way for me to turn that off. My padKontrol has a toggle feature, so Ableton shouldn't do that by default....

I think Ableton started out right by making all the utility plugs for audio and midi. GOOD IDEA.

Personally, I use all 3rd party plugs. I'm very specific about the voices/tone generators I buy to use.

I'm sure once I get everything running right in Ableton, including external synths and gear, I'm gonna be seriously pushing some important requests on the forum....

Seriously, Ableton Live is a great tool, but it's seriously lacking some major features, that is making consider going back to Cubase for studio production..... Heck, it's been so long, i'm beginning to forget about all the MIDI tools Cubase has.

I think that the majority of Ableton users are new to the DAW realm, and they just don't know about what's been going on for YEARS. like 10 YEARS.

Watch out Ableton, I'm gonna be your most hated user on the forum very soon. Not because I'm a pain in the ass, BUT I WILL BE MAKING WAY TO MANY GOOD VALID POINTS....

Just wait... I'm almost done building my studio, and when it's all programmed, I'm gonna start hitting you guys up.......


I need to make a video demonstrating how I use Ableton so they can see what kind of simple functions they need to add to ableton......

NativeBreaks
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:18 am

Post by NativeBreaks » Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:23 am

years ago i used fruity loops. like 10 years ago... I hate that DAW and imageline,

BUT.......

they had a few tools I found extremely useful.

Something as simple as the XY controller. I know ableton has a mini XY controller for plugins in the device chain, but IT'S VERY LIMITED, and you can't just load a blank one and assign it's input and outputs. For example, the fruity XY controller has a setting where you can adjust the responsiveness of the X&Y controls. This is extremely useful for softening the modulations of midi CC signals.
And
Granulizer. I know Ableton IS A TIME STRETCHING SEMI GRANULAR tool in itself. BUT, really, it doesn't quite give you that crystallized time stretched sound effect that I crave. I really like to use this as an effect sometimes. Why can't we load multi samples into a granular sampler, and have settings for each sample in it? Like one sample on each midi note..

AND YA KNOW WHAT ELSE? Why isn't it easier to draw fades in the ends of clips? Everyone else has a one click and drag fade in/out feature. In Ableton, I have to make several clicks to get this effect, and it's NEVER a smooth curve, always a jagged line. Of course, I could disable the quantizing, and draw it in by hand, but MY MOUSE OR TRACK PAD IS A CRUDE TOOL, and the curve will never be smooth. I know ableton has a "FADE" button in the clip editor, but it has no settings for amount of fade time. It;s default setting is great, I never hear pops and clicks. I know it has an auto-setting that ranges a few milliseconds depending on the wave form. But why can't we simply click and drag with one click to fade in/out a clip?

AND CLIP GROUPING. Why can't we do this? Consolidating is great, but WHY DON'T WE HAVE THE OPTION TO JUST GROUP CLIPS IN THE ARRANGEMENT VIEW...

sorry if i seem pushy, but i'm only trying to help you guys..


seriously tho, I think I might just have to put my studio on hold for another few months until I can afford the new Cubase.....

I miss my editing capabilities. Ableton needs to mature a bit...

NativeBreaks
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:18 am

Post by NativeBreaks » Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:32 am

Maybe the programmers of Ableton need to open up Cubase Protools, Fruit Loops, or Logic, and start to pick and choose the best features and implement them into Live..



uhgggg.
I think I should've taken up programming 10 years ago, then today I'd probably have my own DAW that works exactly the way THAT ALL LIVE MUSICIANS NEED IT TO WORK.

sorry Robert Henke, not trying to be rude . I really appreciate what Live is all about. It was way over due for someone to make an app that can handle Live performance, live looping with time stretching, that can also make use of all the HD streaming and large RAM in modern computers..

YOU GUYS ARE THE FUTURE OF MUSIC PRODUCTION AND PERFORMANCE, you just need to meet these few extra requirements...


PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE


thankyou..
:?

NativeBreaks
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:18 am

Post by NativeBreaks » Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:11 am


NativeBreaks
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:18 am

Post by NativeBreaks » Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:14 am

and why in the HECK doesn't ableton have one of these?

http://flstudio.image-line.com/help/htm ... n_dash.gif


Having internal controllers for external synths should have been one of the first things Ableton should have made.

NativeBreaks
Posts: 82
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:18 am

Post by NativeBreaks » Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:17 am

no bezier curves either?

something i can kinda live without, by why is it missing?


I think the Ableton programming team has a lot of work cut out for them

sweetjesus
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Post by sweetjesus » Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:57 am

NativeBreaks wrote:and why in the HECK doesn't ableton have one of these?

http://flstudio.image-line.com/help/htm ... n_dash.gif


Having internal controllers for external synths should have been one of the first things Ableton should have made.
the fact that racks cannot send cc's to an external midi device on the same channel is something im not a fan of.

mr.adl
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Post by mr.adl » Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:02 am

I agree with you guys. I really wouldn´t have needed any Videosupport :roll:
Hope they will do some major updates in Live 8 (128 Midiparameterfix etc.) and focus on simple additions like fades which is like a DAW MUST HAVE!

Macrostructure
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Post by Macrostructure » Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:03 am

Native Breaks style reminds me of someone who got banned recently

rikhyray
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Post by rikhyray » Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:15 pm

Macrostructure wrote:Native Breaks style reminds me of someone who got banned recently
i didn't know he got banned since I trollkiled him few weeks back as he was 50% of the forum posts, making it difficult to see stuff of interests. That chap is mental, the only plugin he needs is a head scanner.
As his pseudo intelligence goes, not much of it really, he is not able to disguise himself efficiently. I quess his 3rd appearance will end in fiasco, he wont be given the privilage of getting noticed, no attention, no one will bother and he will add threads like this one with him posting by himself for himself and sometimes someone will post by mistake.
Timur, you need to see a specialist, your head and not pc/mac,/Live need bug fixes..

dazzer
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Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:24 am

Re: not enough utilites, too many unessecary additions...

Post by dazzer » Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:41 pm

[quote="NativeBreaks"][/quote]

tl;dr

leedsquietman
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Post by leedsquietman » Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:20 pm

to the OP - As a new customer you should surely have done more research before buying Live if you think it's so lacking. It has a downloadable demo that is fully functional for 14 days.

There is no excuse to be whining on here as a NOOB about a lack of features, or making generalizations such as 'Live is many people first DAW' - If Live was many people's first DAW, they probably wouldn't realize it's flaws as they would have no reference point and there are plenty of users, myself included, who had been using other DAWs for years and bought Live because of the unique features it brings to composing and arrangement. I can always rewire, or export audio into my other sequencer if I wanted to take advantage of some extended audio and MIDI editing. The list of feature requests you bring to the table is nothing new, they have been requested many. mnay times before and Ableton are working at implementing as many as they can.

If you had read recent posts from Ableton developers in this forum, such as Robert, Jok and Dom, you would also realize that some of the missing features, such as the 128 parameter limit, cannot easily be fixed, the program will need an extensive rebuild, possibly from the ground up. And that brings it's own problems.

We don't need another Timur/Crash on this forum arguing the toss, and boring us with their whingeing. If you don't like the product, go back to Fruity Loops, or use Project 5 or ACID or anything else.
http://soundcloud.com/umbriel-rising http://www.myspace.com/leedsquietmandemos Live 7.0.18 SUITE, Cubase 5.5.2], Soundforge 9, Dell XPS M1530, 2.2 Ghz C2D, 4GB, Vista Ult SP2, legit plugins a plenty, Alesis IO14.

leedsquietman
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Location: greater toronto area

Post by leedsquietman » Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:12 pm

Additionally - Apart from Operator and Sampler, all of the Ableton Live Suite Instruments - Analog, Tension, Electric, plus the EIC and EIC2 and Session Drums, and the OIC have all been licensed from 3rd party developers and took nothing out of developing Live.
http://soundcloud.com/umbriel-rising http://www.myspace.com/leedsquietmandemos Live 7.0.18 SUITE, Cubase 5.5.2], Soundforge 9, Dell XPS M1530, 2.2 Ghz C2D, 4GB, Vista Ult SP2, legit plugins a plenty, Alesis IO14.

re.mark
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Post by re.mark » Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:23 pm

mr.adl wrote:I agree with you guys. I really wouldn´t have needed any Videosupport :roll:
Videosupport saved my ass when I was trying to edit some video footage and my PC crashed out the day before it was needed!!! Also Live NEEEDS video support to be a necessary competitor with all the other big boy DAWs - they all support video as its necessary for Post-Production applications.


@ OP - Shut up u gonk! Any DAW that wants to be taken seriously comes with its own package of production tools/instruments. The Live suite make its possible for someone to create a whole perfect composition with all tools necessary straight out the box without having to install 3rd party plugins. Yes, there are still features that some people would consider paramount to the programme that arent yet included, but if Ableton had included every single thing in version1, it would have taken a very long time to develop - and would render a whole team of highly skilled developers redundant once complete. Now get back under your bridge!

Robert Henke
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Post by Robert Henke » Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:49 pm

Hi NativeBreaks,

a lot of your wishes are our own wishes too, and we will step by step try to come up with solutions for them. Each release again we try to find a balance between coming up with ideas that are a bit different from what others do, between offering features a classic DAW user expects and between cleaning up things we did in the past and want to work better in the future. If you expect us to integrate all features of a classic DAW in the near future you will be disappointed, we simply do not have the resources to do so while also working on new ideas that go away from a classical DAW. Our user base is very diverse, and there are many ways of using Live that have nothing or little to do with classical DAW workflow and that make Live unique and inspiring.

Anyway, feel free to post wishes at the wishes forum, and contact us for bugs, or post them in the bugs forum. We do collect all input from there, and your collective feedback of course has an influence on the prioritisation of features.

Cheers, Robert

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