Is London a good place to live ?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
SubFunk
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Post by SubFunk » Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:32 pm

machinesworking wrote:
and no offense to Berliners here, I thought I would like it more than I did, and London less than I did.
no offense taken at all, i do somehow love berlin, i mean in the end it's my hometown, but i think it is the most overrated city ever, if i hear all the hype from abroad and there is plenty of it, then i ask myself why?, especially when it comes to music and clubs...

there are many other cities in europe which are kick ass in general, prague, budapest, barcelona to name a few...

at least it's how i think... and berlin is really the ONLY place [ok maybe hamburg as well] in the whole of germany where you can spend more then a week.
the rest is absolutely unliveable, and i spend some years across germany when i was really young, jeez that was a nightmare...

germany might still have a lot of wealth... but the people in general suck here. to me they are emotionally poor bastards. no soul. but good cars. i don't give a shit about cars, though...
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forge
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Post by forge » Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:41 pm

SubFunk wrote: germany might still have a lot of wealth... but the people in general suck here. to me they are emotionally poor bastards. no soul. but good cars. i don't give a shit about cars, though...
it's funny - alot of people can say the same about their own country - grass is always greener on the other side....someone on here once said something similar about England - regarding people asking how much your house is worth before asking your name

there's good and bad people anywhere

SubFunk
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Post by SubFunk » Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:11 pm

forge wrote:
SubFunk wrote: germany might still have a lot of wealth... but the people in general suck here. to me they are emotionally poor bastards. no soul. but good cars. i don't give a shit about cars, though...
it's funny - alot of people can say the same about their own country - grass is always greener on the other side....someone on here once said something similar about England - regarding people asking how much your house is worth before asking your name
there's good and bad people anywhere
totally correct, but if the shift is 80/20 to the bad....

this thread just brought some good memories up and made me putting decisions i did lately into question... that's all.

i am back in berlin since ca. 6 month, and i am happy that i left slovakia [that was the right thing to do!], but moving back to berlin...? don't know yet, i am having a very hard time adjusting again.
and it's because of the "germaness"...
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Machinesworking
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Post by Machinesworking » Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:01 pm

SubFunk wrote:
forge wrote:
SubFunk wrote: germany might still have a lot of wealth... but the people in general suck here. to me they are emotionally poor bastards. no soul. but good cars. i don't give a shit about cars, though...
it's funny - alot of people can say the same about their own country - grass is always greener on the other side....someone on here once said something similar about England - regarding people asking how much your house is worth before asking your name
there's good and bad people anywhere
totally correct, but if the shift is 80/20 to the bad....

this thread just brought some good memories up and made me putting decisions i did lately into question... that's all.

i am back in berlin since ca. 6 month, and i am happy that i left slovakia [that was the right thing to do!], but moving back to berlin...? don't know yet, i am having a very hard time adjusting again.
and it's because of the "germaness"...
To back up Forges point and yours really. I found that Seattle had a sort of chilling effect on me when I first moved here. In comparison to San Francisco Seattle is very aloof and passive aggressive. I'm certain it's not just me as other people who've spent time here have commented similarly about Seattle. Though that I also find that it's laid back nature and underlying friendliness suit me.
With Berlin I didn't spend but three days there, and really that's no amount of time to judge a city. In that time, I got to sit down with Urs Heckman (Zebra 2) and Alex from Ableton, granted both are probably too busy now to do the same, but it does say something about the friendliness of Berliners that two successful programmers were willing to meet and great with some dork musician at a bar somewhere. I didn't even own Live at the time, beyond some hardware freebie version.

London didn't really get that bombed out by WWII in comparison to Berlin, and as an American I'm easily impressed by old school architecture. It would be hard for me to hate on London even if the people were total snobs, simply because I would get a smile every time I traveled around the city.

It is funny though, I have a strong feeling that once my band releases a full length recording etc. we do really well in Berlin, and OK in London. The singer is infatuated with Paris, but as our stuff is far from the Daft Punk / Justice sound, I doubt we make a dent there.

DGA
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Post by DGA » Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:39 pm

SubFunk wrote:machinesworking wrote:
and no offense to Berliners here, I thought I would like it more than I did, and London less than I did.
no offense taken at all, i do somehow love berlin, i mean in the end it's my hometown, but i think it is the most overrated city ever, if i hear all the hype from abroad and there is plenty of it, then i ask myself why?, especially when it comes to music and clubs...

there are many other cities in europe which are kick ass in general, prague, budapest, barcelona to name a few...

germany might still have a lot of wealth... but the people in general suck here. to me they are emotionally poor bastards. no soul. but good cars. i don't give a shit about cars, though...
Hehe, typisch deutsch.

I'm an american, but I love berlin. The public transportation system is extremely well run, there are parks everywhere, no bar closing times, etc etc. The city is certainly not perfect, but I think what is pulled off is quite incredible.

Berlin and bad sound systems? Well, at the cover charges as low as they are here, what can one expect? The biggest club charges 12 euro for a party that goes 18 hours on 2 floors with internationally known names.

Hype? Well, I have not met too many people that choose to move from berlin to london or barecelona, etc, but plenty that do the reverse.

However, not to derail the thread, I do know someone that switched cities. He had lived in london before and felt the city suited him better. His music is more breakbeat oriented, and berlin does not seem to care much for breaks. The local dialect is also difficult for anyone trying to learn german to fully integrate. Most berlin transplants don't actually bother learning german, whereas they probably already speak english if going to london.

SubFunk
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Post by SubFunk » Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:05 pm

dga wrote:
Berlin and bad sound systems? Well, at the cover charges as low as they are here, what can one expect? The biggest club charges 12 euro for a party that goes 18 hours on 2 floors with internationally known names.
correct, and that is exactly pissing me off, they should rather charge 20 or 30 euros and deliver, point is that they actually don't have to, if they would have a stronger business sense in general, it's just not professional over here... i just was yesterday in kreuzberg to a back to basics oldskool party, it was totally packed and they could have made sooo... much more money, if they would sort the bar out, they where running the bar in a DDR socialistic fuck up, lazy way, you get sick from it! and for this extra money they 'wasted' because of an unprofessional village attitude they could invest in a decent sound and experiences like that are standard in berlin
it's typical cheap punk ass rubbish here [mostly]. you can see that generally, berlin does not have a real strong upper market class, like many other international cities. to me that is missing, not that i like posh stuff myself, but it belongs to a big city to keep the balance right, i feel.

and yes, the city itself is beautiful, as you said parks, water, public transport, etc.
i am still just not sure why it is so hyped, probably because it is so cheap!?
and the majority seems to like cheap stuff???
or i don't know and i am just stoopid.
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DGA
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Post by DGA » Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:27 pm

SubFunk wrote:dga wrote:
Berlin and bad sound systems? Well, at the cover charges as low as they are here, what can one expect? The biggest club charges 12 euro for a party that goes 18 hours on 2 floors with internationally known names.
correct, and that is exactly pissing me off, they should rather charge 20 or 30 euros and deliver, point is that they actually don't have to, if they would have a stronger business sense in general, it's just not professional over here... i just was yesterday in kreuzberg to a back to basics oldskool party, it was totally packed and they could have made sooo... much more money, if they would sort the bar out, they where running the bar in a DDR socialistic fuck up, lazy way, you get sick from it! and for this extra money they 'wasted' because of an unprofessional village attitude they could invest in a decent sound and experiences like that are standard in berlin
it's typical cheap punk ass rubbish here [mostly]. you can see that generally, berlin does not have a real strong upper market class, like many other international cities. to me that is missing, not that i like posh stuff myself, but it belongs to a big city to keep the balance right, i feel.

and yes, the city itself is beautiful, as you said parks, water, public transport, etc.
i am still just not sure why it is so hyped, probably because it is so cheap!?
and the majority seems to like cheap stuff???
or i don't know and i am just stoopid.
Berliners earn less money, so how could higher entrance prices be justified? Are flashier london clubs not full of cunts and wankers? For all that I hear is wonderful with fabric, the people I know in london hate the crowd it ultimately draws. Has bottle service not helped kill off nyc's once legendary scene? is berlin cheap, or are some other cities simply overpriced?

I've lived in several upper market international cities, and the idea that one needs to spend lots of money in order to have quality is bullshit. You don't come from Zehlendorf, do you, lol? Throughout modern history, it has typically been the grittier areas which spawned teh amazing music we enjoy. you can always visit club felix or bangaluu in berlin if you want upper market, btu the music probably sucks.

j2j
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Post by j2j » Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:35 pm

DGA wrote:Has bottle service not helped kill off nyc's once legendary scene?

Nyc had a great scene in the 90s, that is true.



Fabric and Ministry suck. They are so commercial, and filled with your average take pills, to get laid garbage... No true emotion, understanding....



I only like underground dance music, I only like underground dance parties.

Great concerts and great parties, imho, two different things.


If you go to a big club, to hear Eric Prydes, that is one thing.. But if you go to a small hole in the wall and Dj ---> Seriously drugged out name here... Than that is another....
too many lasers...

DJ Etain
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Post by DJ Etain » Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:43 pm

London isn't bad if you can get past the crowds, bad weather, rude people, and the cost of living. All that aside it is a pretty cool place to live, if a little tough. I would warn you though, the economy is in the shitter at the moment so if you are planning to move here, bring enough to survive on for a few months.

There is a good music scene outside of the mainstream clubs, in areas like Shoreditch, Old Street, Hackney, etc. Of course i am talking mostly Minimal/Techno nights, but there's other stuff going on too. There is anything you want in London, you just have to look for it. As far as trying to make it as a musician/DJ, it's as difficult as any big city, but nothing's out of reach if you are willing to work for it.

Good luck!
E

serge_a_storms
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Post by serge_a_storms » Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:11 pm

DJ Etain wrote:London isn't bad if you can get past the crowds, bad weather, rude people, and the cost of living. All that aside it is a pretty cool place to live, if a little tough. I would warn you though, the economy is in the shitter at the moment so if you are planning to move here, bring enough to survive on for a few months.

There is a good music scene outside of the mainstream clubs, in areas like Shoreditch, Old Street, Hackney, etc. Of course i am talking mostly Minimal/Techno nights, but there's other stuff going on too. There is anything you want in London, you just have to look for it. As far as trying to make it as a musician/DJ, it's as difficult as any big city, but nothing's out of reach if you are willing to work for it.

Good luck!
E
+1

SubFunk
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Post by SubFunk » Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:24 pm

There is anything you want in London
+1

the point it boils down to... in berlin you have nearly anything you want.

big difference to me personally, though.
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