What would be your ultimate MIDI controller?

ze2be · Post by **ze2be** » Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:45 pm

A smaller Lemur with 8 endless pots at the bottom, or something like that..

I guess it depends on the task though. I would love a couple of lemurs in the studio!! However when performing live id like something in the shape of an instrument. And please not another keyboard or control surface! Rather think like a flute type thing, a guitar type thing, a drum thing, etc. Many options. Think: if you would run around on stage rocking out, how would the instrument controller look like? It has to be sturdy. It has to be ergonomic, it can be thin or round, hang from your neck etc etc. But it HAS to be musically responsive. If its round like a tube, using both hands it could be twisted. It could have small velocity sensitive buttons, designed ergonomically for 10 fingers.

I would chop up some pieces of wood for shape research, and I would listen to input from various types of acoustic playing musicians.

It should run on batteries, and it should send midi and osc wireless.
The internal software should be fully modular, regarding midi!

Actually both types is what I want. A Lemur for mixer type dub performance, and an instrument thing for musical lead type performance.

The lemur type could be velocity responsive too, opening for drum style performance.
like this: http://vimeo.com/2433260?pg=embed&sec=2433260

infiniteB · Post by **infiniteB** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:04 am

The biggest thing missing is an affordable 16 track controller that you don't have to change banks for tracks 9-16! that you don't have to choose either a bank for an effect on/off or a bank for mutes or one solos -- you should be able to mix and match too (fully assignable)
---- if you have at least 4*16 button grids (or 8*8) fully assignable (meaning also toggle or temporary can be chosen), so much more can be done live and in production.... and, they should DEFINITELY have LEDs to tell you what the status of the button is ! ! ! ! ! ! LEDs LEDs LEDs
Banks are nice, but screw banks! make it raw-- 16*4buttons (mutes, solos, record,whatever), 1*16 rotaries, 1*16 MOTORIZED faders (with 2 banks, maybe one used for para EQ?), crossfader, mod wheel, pitch bend wheel, 37 velocity sensitive keyboard, ... The behringer's do it cheap... I'd be willing to pay a lil more to get more...
Maybe, just maybe, make the velocity sensitive keyboard optional, but something you can connect to the main unit easily, and that would look as if it's one with the unit itself.... also keep it open! ! ! in other words, if someone wants to connect any item of their own to it (keyboard, etc...), let them (usb/firewire, etc..)

make it a great, surprisingly great price -- sell more units, get your name known as the standard, and blow up... sort of like Behringer's BCRs, but more rugged, useful, versatile, assignable, complete, and musical...

just my 2

jj0b · Post by **jj0b** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:05 am

ze2be wrote:However when performing live id like something in the shape of an instrument. And please not another keyboard or control surface! Rather think like a flute type thing, a guitar type thing, a drum thing, etc. Many options. Think: if you would run around on stage rocking out, how would the instrument controller look like? It has to be sturdy. It has to be ergonomic, it can be thin or round, hang from your neck etc etc. But it HAS to be musically responsive. If its round like a tube, using both hands it could be twisted. It could have small velocity sensitive buttons, designed ergonomically for 10 fingers.

Love your thinking!

condra · Post by **condra** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:19 am

I would pay 250-350 euro for this.

xherv · Post by **xherv** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:32 am

As far as I'm aware, there are no small units that have a pitchbend / modwheel - I think one of the faderfoxes has a mini-joystick but the best pitchbend/modwheel controllers are pretty solid and fairly large (and attached to a keyboard . . .). I would like something like that.

Of course a lot of the mass produced stuff cuts too many corners on hardware quality to be completely satisfying, that should be the ultimate goal. If I were looking for a botique, custom controller I'm not sure I'd be after something completely wizz-bang, rather something with a couple of unique and overlooked features and impeccable build quality.

ultra · Post by **ultra** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:33 pm

i wrote a forum post on this. my ultimate controller will be custom using midibox and extensive use of liveapi. it's not what's on the surface that counts, it's the code behind it

.

http://www.midibox.org/forum/index.php/ ... 636.0.html

mkelly · Post by **mkelly** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:46 pm

xherv wrote:As far as I'm aware, there are no small units that have a pitchbend / modwheel - I think one of the faderfoxes has a mini-joystick but the best pitchbend/modwheel controllers are pretty solid and fairly large (and attached to a keyboard . . .). I would like something like that.

One of the guys from Mason said in Future Music that he bought the Nord Lead solely for the pitch bend (or words to that effect). Got to agree with him - I love the pitch bend stick on the Leads. They really should sell the pich bend/mod-wheel combo as a standalone unit.

The Mechanic · Post by **The Mechanic** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:15 pm

I like little joys sticks for some reason. At least one. I in the process of making a controller out of crap sitting in my workshop with 16 buttons and two little joysticks. I'll send you pics if you like.

Jekblad · Post by **Jekblad** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:38 pm

i don't know why more of us don't make our own controllers. I know i should. Spend less time complaining and more time doing something about it.

Plus-one for plexiglass so i can write what the controller actually does. I think i'd make switching midi channels one button, like a row at the top of 8 buttons and a shift key. Fast and easy for switching instruments and such.

Screw it i'll save for a lemur. Knobs on a lemur would be hot.

ultra · Post by **ultra** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:56 pm

any of this stuff can be done with midibox. use any buttons you like (illuminated/non-illuminated), pots, rotary encoders, take out the detent to make them smooth, etc, and write your own code so the midibox does whatever you want it to. add some nice graphic lcds, a midi-usb port, etc.

midibox also has a large community behind it with extensive documentation. little electronics knowledge is required, and it's operating system (MIOS) makes it easy to code your applications in C.

i'm in the process of writing a complete midibox/liveapi framework so people who build and code their midibox don't have to know anything about liveapi. you just use the functions provided. it's nearing release.

ultra

Jekblad · Post by **Jekblad** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:58 pm

got any cool links to get me started. I'll check midibox first of course.

i don't know anything about coding or ANYTHING. Like building things.

ultra · Post by **ultra** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:07 pm

jekblad: well www.midibox.org is your first stop. also ucapps.de is the site for the pre-written midibox applications. there's one (midibox lc) that's designed for the mackie control protocol, so it of course works with live. uses rotary encoders and led rings

.

i'd highly recommend starting out with something small, like a simple knob box and button box using pots or rotary encoders and some simple switches. check the midibox 64 or 64e applications. you won't have to know much about coding to build these.

even if you don't get good use out of it, it's still useful to have as a development environment should you choose to learn C and write your own applications. C isn't too difficult to learn, but a good book is recommended. also, you're guaranteed to learn a thing or two and might get hooked on it. that's the point where you can start making really neat things.

midibox modules are available from sellers for a pretty good price. they include kits with circuit boards and the parts. they're never a complete kit, they're modular based. means you have to figure out what you want to make, figure out the modules you need, build them, and tie it all together.

ultra

John Sweet · Post by **John Sweet** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:23 pm

I think there's a fundamental difference between an instrument controller and a workstation controller.

Instrument controllers have been developing since before Live was even invented. But workstation controllers are stuck in a very old paradigm & haven't updated to be comprehensive and performance-oriented.

There are lots of little extras I would argue for in a workstation-type controller:

-Mouse and basic shortcut key messages
-a single octave mini keyboard (only Mathias has done this, but it's awesome--have you messed around with assigning different controls to an octave range on a keyboard yet? It rocks.)
-one Killamix-type bank-switchable encoder strip with either LED strips or an LCD for display
-a pitch/mod wheel
-at least one joystick, maybe even with twist and center click
-8 to 16 small but functional pads
-a button matrix
-8 or 16 (or 17) faders
-an iPhone/iPod Touch cradle plus a companion iPhone app that adds yr Lemur functionality like XY pads, etc

Silwolffe · Post by **Silwolffe** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:27 am

Something along the lines of this:

John Sweet · Post by **John Sweet** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:35 am

The VCM really only matches one thing on my list, the faders.

It's one of the best yet but it's really just a virtual DJ mixer formatted for Live. There are a lot more possibilities than that. When I was DJing with Live I preferred to use a real mixer for those tasks and save MIDI controllers for more advanced and interesting stuff.