Israel: Boycott, divest, sanction

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musiker01
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:58 pm

Post by musiker01 » Sun Jan 11, 2009 12:03 pm

But I'd also like to challenge the original poster:
The world has tried what used to be called "constructive engagement." It has failed utterly.
Who or what is "the world"? I think lots of powerful people in the west as much as in the arab world and in Israel are constantly taking advantage of the situation. This slaughter servers a purpose for these power hungry perverts.

If people would just see the obvious, that is, violence breeds violence, therefore, if you want to end violence you have to take a peaceful course of action, even if that seems impossible at times, then and only then there'd be progress.

I don't see a boycott serving this purpose.

smartass303
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Post by smartass303 » Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:19 pm

hell yeah, lets get the bundeswehr over there to help the hamas building rockets and shoot some jews.

am deutschen wesen wird die welt genesen,


303

musiker01
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Post by musiker01 » Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:44 pm

smartass303 wrote:hell yeah, lets get the bundeswehr over there to help the hamas building rockets and shoot some jews.

am deutschen wesen wird die welt genesen,


303
Quite thoughtful and helpful response. Thank you so much.

smartass303
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Post by smartass303 » Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:49 pm

youre welcome,

303

Machinesworking
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Post by Machinesworking » Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:51 am

musiker01 wrote:But I'd also like to challenge the original poster:
The world has tried what used to be called "constructive engagement." It has failed utterly.
Who or what is "the world"? I think lots of powerful people in the west as much as in the arab world and in Israel are constantly taking advantage of the situation. This slaughter servers a purpose for these power hungry perverts.

If people would just see the obvious, that is, violence breeds violence, therefore, if you want to end violence you have to take a peaceful course of action, even if that seems impossible at times, then and only then there'd be progress.

I don't see a boycott serving this purpose.
Like I said, I'm back and forth on this, honestly, the UN (which let's not forget translates to the world powers), has been upset at Israel for years, but without any recourse due to the US. If our government was to hold Israel responsible for their actions, then something might move over there, and conversely if the arab world would adapt a Gandhi approach the west would listen. It's hard to hear what they have to say over the sound of the suicide bombings and random rocket fire.

aeon
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Post by aeon » Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:32 am

please also feel free to boycott the UK.

as you know, we in Britain used cluster munitions, depleted uranium and white phosphorus in our most recent conflicts. recently, we started a bloody war which was pretty much entirely rejected by the international community.

last year, we reclaimed our position as the world's number one arms dealer - after completing an enormous deal with those benighted lovers of human rights, the Saudis.

with a stellar five centuries' of practical colonial/imperial experience, we've got a rock-solid pedigree when it comes to subjugating and oppressing the world over.

and when you consider our position of global power and influence, and our hugely important arms manufacturers trade fairs, etc., it's quite resonable to consider the UK a genuine exporter of death. certainly it would be difficult to paint Israel as being any more bloodthirsty.

as an addendum, you might consider that in South Africa this year, 700 people have already been murdered, and 1800 women have already been raped. the last week 400 villagers were led into the hills in northern Uganda, where their lips and genitals were cut off, before they were shot or burned alive.

sadly, the world is once again focussed on this stupid endless fucking conflict which sucks all the attention, urgency and scrutiny away from areas which could really do with some funding and exposure. according to wikipedia, under 6,000 people have died in the arab israeli conflict since 2000.

i don't mean to be callous, because every unnecessary loss of life is hugely important to those affected. i just want people to remember that for two of those years, 3,500 people died in the DRC every single day. it was like 9/11 or half an intifada, every day, for two years. then take out your mobile phone or your wedding ring, think about where the coltan or the diamonds in it come from, think about the last time you heard anything at all about the DRC, and get boycotting.

you might want to start at home...
digitally yours

b0unce
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Post by b0unce » Tue Jan 13, 2009 4:24 pm

aeon wrote:...
Aeon, your post is completely disengenuous and fairly riddled with the ole' irony verging on hypocrasy ... and punctuated with a great big steaming turd of a platitude. bravo.
For a start, this insideously glib counter-argument of 'but what about darfur' etc is becoming a stale cliche. It seems the only people who make this counter-argument are the ponced-up plebs who ordinarly don't raise the issue themselves, at all. Am I supposed to feel headless because I'm not also documenting the war crimes in Uganda ? You should feel worse for only mentioning these crimes in the context of palestinian discussion, as if to throw a spanner in the works... :roll:
Machinesworking wrote:It's hard to hear what they have to say over the sound of the suicide bombings and random rocket fire.
have you ever considered a career in writing soundbytes for Bill O'Reilly ?
You'd do extraordinarily well.
spreader of butter

Machinesworking
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Post by Machinesworking » Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:06 pm

b0unce wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:It's hard to hear what they have to say over the sound of the suicide bombings and random rocket fire.
have you ever considered a career in writing soundbytes for Bill O'Reilly ?
You'd do extraordinarily well.
The 'sound byte' quality of what I said does not take away from the simple fact that the basic method of resistance that the palestinians have used to date is repulsive to western thinking and does nothing to help them. Sure, on a comparative level it's not effective and one can argue that it's a desperate attempt, but none of that does anything to take away, again, from the fact that all it does is give fuel to people painting them out as "terrorists". Anytime any people fight an enemy of disproportionate strength, they should really think about the world stage, and making sure the enemy is seen as 100% wrong. Suicide bombings and random rocket fire is to me a particularly bad propaganda tool, and without the military to back it up, the palestinians are fighting a war of propaganda.
I sympathize 100% really, with the palestinians in this case, but it would be silly for me to not acknowledge the mistakes that they've made in getting the west to agree with them over Israel.

Chang
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Post by Chang » Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:11 pm

Machinesworking wrote:
musiker01 wrote:But I'd also like to challenge the original poster:
The world has tried what used to be called "constructive engagement." It has failed utterly.
Who or what is "the world"? I think lots of powerful people in the west as much as in the arab world and in Israel are constantly taking advantage of the situation. This slaughter servers a purpose for these power hungry perverts.

If people would just see the obvious, that is, violence breeds violence, therefore, if you want to end violence you have to take a peaceful course of action, even if that seems impossible at times, then and only then there'd be progress.

I don't see a boycott serving this purpose.
Like I said, I'm back and forth on this, honestly, the UN (which let's not forget translates to the world powers), has been upset at Israel for years, but without any recourse due to the US. If our government was to hold Israel responsible for their actions, then something might move over there, and conversely if the arab world would adapt a Gandhi approach the west would listen. It's hard to hear what they have to say over the sound of the suicide bombings and random rocket fire.

I agree with this post entirely. And would add that unfortunately it would never happen. Even if border goes back to 1967 lines many in arab world would still not be happy and want eradication of israeli state. The palestinians are the most used abused manipulated people by the arab nations themselves let alone the ongoing conflict with jews. Jordan, syria and lebanon do not want them and even if they accept some of them they make palestinians second class citizens and unable to work professional jobs. This leads me to believe they want palestinians to stay not just for land, but for political purposes as well that serve themselves. "Let the jews slaughter them, it only helps our cause to the final destruction of israel". I believe this is being said in back room between Mahmoud Ahmadinejad & Ayatollah in iran on a daily basis. EVery day another picture of palestinian dead bodies everywhere I truly believe ahmadinejad is smiling happy with results and planing. No way imo is Ahmadinejad or ayatollah going to ever take a Gandhi approach. It would be great if happened but i not see this happening by any stretch. They dont care about palestinians, this a political bloodshed and palestinians are pawns in an iranian proxy war to rally entire arab world & eradicate the state of israel.

b0unce
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Post by b0unce » Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:52 pm

Machinesworking wrote:
b0unce wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:It's hard to hear what they have to say over the sound of the suicide bombings and random rocket fire.
have you ever considered a career in writing soundbytes for Bill O'Reilly ?
You'd do extraordinarily well.
The 'sound byte' quality of what I said does not take away from the simple fact that the basic method of resistance that the palestinians have used to date is repulsive to western thinking and does nothing to help them. Sure, on a comparative level it's not effective and one can argue that it's a desperate attempt, but none of that does anything to take away, again, from the fact that all it does is give fuel to people painting them out as "terrorists". Anytime any people fight an enemy of disproportionate strength, they should really think about the world stage, and making sure the enemy is seen as 100% wrong. Suicide bombings and random rocket fire is to me a particularly bad propaganda tool, and without the military to back it up, the palestinians are fighting a war of propaganda.
I sympathize 100% really, with the palestinians in this case, but it would be silly for me to not acknowledge the mistakes that they've made in getting the west to agree with them over Israel.
the soundbyte quality of what you said is completely irrelevant to the facts. It was just a cheap Bill-o-reilly-esque soundbyte. nothing less, and certainly nothing more.

one can argue that it's a desperate attempt, but none of that does anything to take away, again, from the fact that all it does is give fuel to people painting them out as "terrorists"
One can argue, easily & successfully, that the method of resistance is a continued act of sheer, unadulterated desperation - without any shred of doubt. Simply stating the contrary does not make it so. Those 'people' you refer to are quite simply wrong, and more often than not are the epitome of hypocrisy. You want to hold the suicidal palestinian combatants to the standards of 'western thinking' ? What is the UN & the Geneva Conventions in relation to western thinking ? It's evident that it is the west itself that is most at odds with, ahem, 'western thinking' .... aka Israel backed militarily and financially by U.S.A

"Anytime any people fight an enemy of disproportionate strength, they should really think about the world stage, and making sure the enemy is seen as 100% wrong. Suicide bombings and random rocket fire is to me a particularly bad propaganda tool, and without the military to back it up, the palestinians are fighting a war of propaganda."

:roll: whatever you say, MacArthur
Taking you at your word, it would seem like a broad, western boycott against israel is the best strategic solution for palestinians.
spreader of butter

Machinesworking
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Location: Seattle

Post by Machinesworking » Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:33 pm

b0unce wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:
b0unce wrote: have you ever considered a career in writing soundbytes for Bill O'Reilly ?
You'd do extraordinarily well.
The 'sound byte' quality of what I said does not take away from the simple fact that the basic method of resistance that the palestinians have used to date is repulsive to western thinking and does nothing to help them. Sure, on a comparative level it's not effective and one can argue that it's a desperate attempt, but none of that does anything to take away, again, from the fact that all it does is give fuel to people painting them out as "terrorists". Anytime any people fight an enemy of disproportionate strength, they should really think about the world stage, and making sure the enemy is seen as 100% wrong. Suicide bombings and random rocket fire is to me a particularly bad propaganda tool, and without the military to back it up, the palestinians are fighting a war of propaganda.
I sympathize 100% really, with the palestinians in this case, but it would be silly for me to not acknowledge the mistakes that they've made in getting the west to agree with them over Israel.
the soundbyte quality of what you said is completely irrelevant to the facts. It was just a cheap Bill-o-reilly-esque soundbyte. nothing less, and certainly nothing more.

one can argue that it's a desperate attempt, but none of that does anything to take away, again, from the fact that all it does is give fuel to people painting them out as "terrorists"
One can argue, easily & successfully, that the method of resistance is a continued act of sheer, unadulterated desperation - without any shred of doubt. Simply stating the contrary does not make it so. Those 'people' you refer to are quite simply wrong, and more often than not are the epitome of hypocrisy. You want to hold the suicidal palestinian combatants to the standards of 'western thinking' ? What is the UN & the Geneva Conventions in relation to western thinking ? It's evident that it is the west itself that is most at odds with, ahem, 'western thinking' .... aka Israel backed militarily and financially by U.S.A

"Anytime any people fight an enemy of disproportionate strength, they should really think about the world stage, and making sure the enemy is seen as 100% wrong. Suicide bombings and random rocket fire is to me a particularly bad propaganda tool, and without the military to back it up, the palestinians are fighting a war of propaganda."

:roll: whatever you say, MacArthur
Taking you at your word, it would seem like a broad, western boycott against israel is the best strategic solution for palestinians.
Well fucking duh brainiac? Beyond getting people here in the states to wake the fuck up and realize that beyond the hype, the palestinians are being abused, it's virtually a one way street, you know I think that. The only alternative is boycotts, and maybe funding for resistance movements in Israel.
The reality is the world at large is subject to western standards, maybe that's not fair, but I nor you can change that, and in that vein it's a propaganda nightmare for their cause when kids wear suicide bomber costumes at rallies etc. This would do wonders to change the sympathies in the west to drop this stuff. The rockets are another thing, it's just not doing them any good, and sort of sad.

beats me
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Post by beats me » Tue Jan 13, 2009 7:03 pm

Somewhat off topic, but I'd like to know what kind of insane party can make statements like "victory is near!" when they are clearly getting their ass militarily pummeled. This type of statement has been made in just about every Arab country that has had the misfortune of the western world "invade" them. If having as many of your people in a dirt bed as possible defines victory, then yeah, the scales are clearly tipped in your favor.

If I was a follower of any of these groups and heard a statement like that I would be "you had me……ok, now you lost me."

BoimB son of BoB
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Post by BoimB son of BoB » Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:08 pm

smartass303 wrote:youre welcome,

303
those 'rockets' killed 35 people over the last 8 fucking years.
they are hand made shit. they are a pover means of PROTEST.

18 days, almost 1000 palestines killed. they are nazi offspring in my book.

anyway, the press in europe seems to sympathize with palestine people. unless they are not giving ous all the facts, i think they just want to get rid of them, simple as that. and slowly withing 50 years they will have killed all of them, step by step by step.

and europe and the rest of the world can kiss their nukes' arse. who gave those nuts nuclear weapons in the first place???

BoimB son of BoB
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Post by BoimB son of BoB » Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:16 pm

Machinesworking wrote:
b0unce wrote:
Machinesworking wrote: The 'sound byte' quality of what I said does not take away from the simple fact that the basic method of resistance that the palestinians have used to date is repulsive to western thinking and does nothing to help them. Sure, on a comparative level it's not effective and one can argue that it's a desperate attempt, but none of that does anything to take away, again, from the fact that all it does is give fuel to people painting them out as "terrorists". Anytime any people fight an enemy of disproportionate strength, they should really think about the world stage, and making sure the enemy is seen as 100% wrong. Suicide bombings and random rocket fire is to me a particularly bad propaganda tool, and without the military to back it up, the palestinians are fighting a war of propaganda.
I sympathize 100% really, with the palestinians in this case, but it would be silly for me to not acknowledge the mistakes that they've made in getting the west to agree with them over Israel.
the soundbyte quality of what you said is completely irrelevant to the facts. It was just a cheap Bill-o-reilly-esque soundbyte. nothing less, and certainly nothing more.

one can argue that it's a desperate attempt, but none of that does anything to take away, again, from the fact that all it does is give fuel to people painting them out as "terrorists"
One can argue, easily & successfully, that the method of resistance is a continued act of sheer, unadulterated desperation - without any shred of doubt. Simply stating the contrary does not make it so. Those 'people' you refer to are quite simply wrong, and more often than not are the epitome of hypocrisy. You want to hold the suicidal palestinian combatants to the standards of 'western thinking' ? What is the UN & the Geneva Conventions in relation to western thinking ? It's evident that it is the west itself that is most at odds with, ahem, 'western thinking' .... aka Israel backed militarily and financially by U.S.A

"Anytime any people fight an enemy of disproportionate strength, they should really think about the world stage, and making sure the enemy is seen as 100% wrong. Suicide bombings and random rocket fire is to me a particularly bad propaganda tool, and without the military to back it up, the palestinians are fighting a war of propaganda."

:roll: whatever you say, MacArthur
Taking you at your word, it would seem like a broad, western boycott against israel is the best strategic solution for palestinians.
Well fucking duh brainiac? Beyond getting people here in the states to wake the fuck up and realize that beyond the hype, the palestinians are being abused, it's virtually a one way street, you know I think that. The only alternative is boycotts, and maybe funding for resistance movements in Israel.
The reality is the world at large is subject to western standards, maybe that's not fair, but I nor you can change that, and in that vein it's a propaganda nightmare for their cause when kids wear suicide bomber costumes at rallies etc. This would do wonders to change the sympathies in the west to drop this stuff. The rockets are another thing, it's just not doing them any good, and sort of sad.
you need a camera to film every one of those 100ds of rudely killed pallestinians? look, for all i know palestianian kids run around with bombs around their waists. that's not really the view we get here. i see cripled childs, that were playing at the wrong place at the wrong time when a arse hole helicopter pilot desided to drop some nuke. that's what we get to see here, maybe the press fills in reality differently over there?

funky shit
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Post by funky shit » Tue Jan 13, 2009 9:35 pm

There is the option of confiscating the "holy land" and putting some nukes to good use so it is uninhabitable for a good while.

Holy land....
Image

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