Israel: Boycott, divest, sanction

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andydes
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Post by andydes » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:13 pm

Chang wrote:
andydes wrote: There should never, ever be any excuse to order artillery bombardment on a school.
Ok, so if you are in fox hole with your five best friends and you are pinned down by multiple AK-47 & RPG rocket fire coming in from terrorists hiding in a school and its blowing up all around you and you know that without calling in a tank strike or air strike on that location your going to die what are you going to do? You don't know if there are any children in the building, but your DO know for fact that terrorist are in there as you are taking heavy fire from them, what you goin to do?
But the IDF knows that Hamas' tactic is to fire once, then move the hell out before the strike. So a more likely scenario is this:

You and your five best friends have been fired on by an RPG and multiple AK-47s. It is over, but one of your friends is injured. There were probably about 5 Hamas fighters and they will already be moving to a new location. You know there are dozens of civilians sheltering in the building as your army moved them there and locked them inside. Do you order the strike to try and take out the terrorists before they can leave the area?

diverdee
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Post by diverdee » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:47 pm

By the way Israeli military has also been roundly condemned for their tactic of using Palestinians (especially children) as human shields, making them go into unsecured houses first to take fire & setting up fire teams in houses with the residents still in.
Me smells a whiff of serious hypocrisy here.
Google it, I can't be arsed finding the links for y'all, but Human rights watch, amnesty etc. have been criticising them for years over the practice - & it's happening in this 'conflict' also.

crumhorn
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Post by crumhorn » Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:10 pm

Israel is now quietly admitting that there was no morter fire from the UN school compound. But it hasn't had a lot of media coverage strangely enough.

--> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=s0BRJS6WnMs
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Machinesworking
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Post by Machinesworking » Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:13 pm

andydes wrote: Side note: Israel didn’t honour their side of the ceasefire and lift the trade embargo in Gaza. They also continued to carry out raids on Hamas claiming this didn’t violate the terms. So it’s not exactly an unprovoked attack. There were already shortages of food, water, electricity and something like 90% of private businesses in Gaza had been ruined. It was basically fucked before the invasion anyway.


Anyone who babbles on about terrorist this and that with Hamas should really look into this a little. It's stupid to think after all this, something wouldn't happen.

Also Crumhorns post above, read it.

3dot...
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Post by 3dot... » Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:22 pm

Machinesworking wrote:
This latest round is simply not a case of those darned arabs hating on the jews, it's a case of Israel manipulating public opinion. I'm glad you guys are at least trying to lay the blame 50/50 but it's nowhere near that, it's more like 90% Israel 10% Hamas.
huh?

[scratches head]... :?
Image

Chang
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Post by Chang » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:02 pm

crumhorn wrote:Israel is now quietly admitting that there was no morter fire from the UN school compound. But it hasn't had a lot of media coverage strangely enough.

--> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=s0BRJS6WnMs

I just listen to that and c'mon. It s warzone over there. Have any of you been in military? So the terrorists were standing in front of the building firing at IDF instead of inside window of the building?
How pc we going to make this warzone hell hole exactly? Well, the hamas gunmen were actually in the balcony or outside entrance to the building to building in question not phisicaly inside building so war crime and full investigation pending. Ridiculous. :roll:

djsynchro
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Post by djsynchro » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:38 pm

...

crumhorn
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Post by crumhorn » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:46 pm

Chang wrote:
crumhorn wrote:Israel is now quietly admitting that there was no morter fire from the UN school compound. But it hasn't had a lot of media coverage strangely enough.

--> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=s0BRJS6WnMs

I just listen to that and c'mon. It s warzone over there. Have any of you been in military? So the terrorists were standing in front of the building firing at IDF instead of inside window of the building?
How pc we going to make this warzone hell hole exactly? Well, the hamas gunmen were actually in the balcony or outside entrance to the building to building in question not phisicaly inside building so war crime and full investigation pending. Ridiculous. :roll:
the word used was not building but compound - e.g. not even within the perimeter fence.
"The banjo is the perfect instrument for the antisocial."

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Chang
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Post by Chang » Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:19 pm

crumhorn wrote:
Chang wrote:
crumhorn wrote:Israel is now quietly admitting that there was no morter fire from the UN school compound. But it hasn't had a lot of media coverage strangely enough.

--> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=s0BRJS6WnMs

I just listen to that and c'mon. It s warzone over there. Have any of you been in military? So the terrorists were standing in front of the building firing at IDF instead of inside window of the building?
How pc we going to make this warzone hell hole exactly? Well, the hamas gunmen were actually in the balcony or outside entrance to the building to building in question not phisicaly inside building so war crime and full investigation pending. Ridiculous. :roll:
the word used was not building but compound - e.g. not even within the perimeter fence.
Inside compound, outside compound. I dont hear anything about not even within a perimeter fence at all in video, you add the e.g. and the notion of perimeter fence and where hamas gunmen were exactly. This tit tat stuff ridiculous. So what next? Ok they were outside the compound but inside the perimeter fence, no wait, outside the fence... well, some were inside fence, some outside fence, one actually on top of fence. Who care? There were hamas terrorists around the compound in a fire fight with idf.

And after looking at these pictures. http://www.geocities.com/palestiniansar ... ields.html I'm afraid Im not going to believe hamas innocents in this.

dinsync
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Re: Israel: Boycott, divest, sanction

Post by dinsync » Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:34 pm

b0unce wrote:It's been said before, it's not a new idea, but perhaps in light of the recent atrocities in Gaza you may want to seriously consider actively boycotting Israel.
You = brain-washed fool.

djsynchro
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1000+ dead in Gaza

Post by djsynchro » Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:56 pm

Image

Machinesworking
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Post by Machinesworking » Thu Jan 15, 2009 2:59 am

Chang wrote:
crumhorn wrote:
Chang wrote:
I just listen to that and c'mon. It s warzone over there. Have any of you been in military? So the terrorists were standing in front of the building firing at IDF instead of inside window of the building?
How pc we going to make this warzone hell hole exactly? Well, the hamas gunmen were actually in the balcony or outside entrance to the building to building in question not phisicaly inside building so war crime and full investigation pending. Ridiculous. :roll:
the word used was not building but compound - e.g. not even within the perimeter fence.
Inside compound, outside compound. I dont hear anything about not even within a perimeter fence at all in video, you add the e.g. and the notion of perimeter fence and where hamas gunmen were exactly. This tit tat stuff ridiculous. So what next? Ok they were outside the compound but inside the perimeter fence, no wait, outside the fence... well, some were inside fence, some outside fence, one actually on top of fence. Who care? There were hamas terrorists around the compound in a fire fight with idf.

And after looking at these pictures. http://www.geocities.com/palestiniansar ... ields.html I'm afraid Im not going to believe hamas innocents in this.
What's so hard about admitting it was unnecessary and could have been handled differently?
The human shield thing, not really what you portray it as, lame sure, but a way to prevent a stronger military from eliminating you entirely, it's more human camouflage.
Nobody in Gaza likes the Israelis, it's not just Hamas.

Who wants to bet it suddenly cools down on the 21st? Cynical of me I know, but I'm pretty sure Israel doesn't want any sort of condemnation from Obama, and while he's pro Israel, he was pro palestinian in the past, and hopefully he can see both sides clearer than most people can.

jonny72
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Post by jonny72 » Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:25 am

Chang wrote:
crumhorn wrote:
Chang wrote:
I just listen to that and c'mon. It s warzone over there. Have any of you been in military? So the terrorists were standing in front of the building firing at IDF instead of inside window of the building?
How pc we going to make this warzone hell hole exactly? Well, the hamas gunmen were actually in the balcony or outside entrance to the building to building in question not phisicaly inside building so war crime and full investigation pending. Ridiculous. :roll:
the word used was not building but compound - e.g. not even within the perimeter fence.
Inside compound, outside compound. I dont hear anything about not even within a perimeter fence at all in video, you add the e.g. and the notion of perimeter fence and where hamas gunmen were exactly. This tit tat stuff ridiculous. So what next? Ok they were outside the compound but inside the perimeter fence, no wait, outside the fence... well, some were inside fence, some outside fence, one actually on top of fence. Who care? There were hamas terrorists around the compound in a fire fight with idf.

And after looking at these pictures. http://www.geocities.com/palestiniansar ... ields.html I'm afraid Im not going to believe hamas innocents in this.
The facts seem pretty simple. There was a UN compound, Israel knew it was a UN compound and had no reason to believe there was anything other than members of the UN and civilians within it. There were possibly some members of Hamas outside but nearby the compound. Israel bombed the compound and killed 40 civilians.

If this was a mistake, why didn't Israel come out immediately and say that?

Why try to cover it up? Why try to justify it?

Israel's actions since the incident just make them look more and more guilty.

Chang
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Post by Chang » Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:37 am

jonny72 wrote:
Chang wrote:
crumhorn wrote: the word used was not building but compound - e.g. not even within the perimeter fence.
Inside compound, outside compound. I dont hear anything about not even within a perimeter fence at all in video, you add the e.g. and the notion of perimeter fence and where hamas gunmen were exactly. This tit tat stuff ridiculous. So what next? Ok they were outside the compound but inside the perimeter fence, no wait, outside the fence... well, some were inside fence, some outside fence, one actually on top of fence. Who care? There were hamas terrorists around the compound in a fire fight with idf.

And after looking at these pictures. http://www.geocities.com/palestiniansar ... ields.html I'm afraid Im not going to believe hamas innocents in this.
There were possibly some members of Hamas outside but nearby the compound. Israel bombed the compound and killed 40 civilians.

.

I can do one even better into fantasy land. There was no warzone going on anywhere. Nothing but total peace. There was no hamas terrorists within a hundreds mile radius of the compound. idf troops snuck in to area seeking out UN compound knowing it was filled with children because they know killing children & blowing up things with UN painted on them helps their cause on front page of newspapers round world. They find building, no one around at all, they aim all tanks at building hoping to kill 500 children in one blast, but only got 40. Israeli troops angry there were not more childs in building. :roll:

Machinesworking
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Post by Machinesworking » Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:28 am

Chang wrote:
jonny72 wrote:
Chang wrote: Inside compound, outside compound. I dont hear anything about not even within a perimeter fence at all in video, you add the e.g. and the notion of perimeter fence and where hamas gunmen were exactly. This tit tat stuff ridiculous. So what next? Ok they were outside the compound but inside the perimeter fence, no wait, outside the fence... well, some were inside fence, some outside fence, one actually on top of fence. Who care? There were hamas terrorists around the compound in a fire fight with idf.

And after looking at these pictures. http://www.geocities.com/palestiniansar ... ields.html I'm afraid Im not going to believe hamas innocents in this.
There were possibly some members of Hamas outside but nearby the compound. Israel bombed the compound and killed 40 civilians.

.

I can do one even better into fantasy land. There was no warzone going on anywhere. Nothing but total peace. There was no hamas terrorists within a hundreds mile radius of the compound. idf troops snuck in to area seeking out UN compound knowing it was filled with children because they know killing children & blowing up things with UN painted on them helps their cause on front page of newspapers round world. They find building, no one around at all, they aim all tanks at building hoping to kill 500 children in one blast, but only got 40. Israeli troops angry there were not more childs in building. :roll:
There are plenty of reasons to defend Israel, this simply isn't one of them. The UN isn't some freaky hippy organization, it's more like the collective conscience of the world IMO, and when people or countries have "problems" with the UN, it's almost always because they want to break the rules of warfare the world decided upon. UN spokespeople are not on the payroll of Hamas, sorry.

Israel isn't the only country to start fighting wars with the idea of limiting your casualty rate at all costs, no matter if it might possibly break the rules of war, it's pretty common these days, doesn't make it right.

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