Why on earth does Live have to "import" everything

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loachm
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Why on earth does Live have to "import" everything??

Post by loachm » Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:07 pm

Sorry for the harsh title, but can anybody explain this to me? Or tell me what I might be doing wrong? I have finally decided to use Live as my main sequencer for its ease of use and flexibility and to ditch Cubase 4 instead (although I really regret that Live doesn't offer a sample management tool like the Media Bay).

I use a lot of loops and single samples, so the Drum Rack and Simpler are the main tools for me.

I'd like to create Simpler instruments from the wave-files of my sample libraries and Drum Rack instruments using Rex-Files from the different sample libraries I own. I want to keep the samples in their original folders and I don't want them to be saved into some Import folder in the Ableton Live Library path. Is there any way to avoid this? (Actually, for the Rex-Files I'd like to create Live Clips for the Drum-Racks to keep the midi file that has been created from the Rex-File, but then again, the file is saved once again into some Import folder)...

alexaaz
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Post by alexaaz » Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:41 pm

Hi,

I have also been thoroughly confused by the behaviour of the file management system in Live. However, I have recently made some realizations that will probably help you:

*Anything* in the Ableton Live Library folder is considered in its library and will not be copied in and thus duplicated. So I have all my favourite sample CDs in a folder here:

Ableton Live/Samples/Sample Collections/

When I create drum racks with drum samples or samplers with samples from this this folder Live considers all the files in its library and thus does not attempt to import them anywhere. I WISH I had known this at the beginning of my Ableton Live use because I specifically had Live import EVERYTHING so that I knew it would all always be there... the side effect of this is that EVERYTHING I originally imported is now in the Samples/imported/ folder and it is impossible to navigate the samples as there are so many in one folder. On top of this, LIVE's library really slows down when it grows too large.

You can verify the behaviour I am describing by dragging in a sample from a folder like I suggested and then selecting 'View - File Manager - Manage Live Set'; you will notice Live says that the project uses 1 sample from the Library.

Whilst we are Ableton Live file manager bashing (and let's face it, it's probably the weakest area of the program by far), OSX has spotlight but Live is totally unaware of this. It really can't be more than an amateurs programming job to hook into OSXs Spotlight API and allow Live to be far more 'aware'. It is QUICKER for me to use Spotlight manually than for Live to search for the files itself! Ridiculous...

Anyway, it looks like 8 offers no improvements whatsoever in the file management areas.

*sigh*

All the best,

Alex

Green Lemon
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Post by Green Lemon » Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:03 pm

Its not really a bad system if *you understand it*.

Anyway, sure spotlight integration would be handy.
--
first 1k as chrysalis33rpm.

Meef Chaloin
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Post by Meef Chaloin » Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:28 pm

interesting post Alex. I've never got to grips with the library & generally avoid using it as much as possible but looks like i should move it all in to the library.

How big do you mean about the slowing down?

snakedogman
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Re: Why on earth does Live have to "import" everything??

Post by snakedogman » Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:48 pm

loachm wrote:I'd like to create Simpler instruments from the wave-files of my sample libraries and Drum Rack instruments using Rex-Files from the different sample libraries I own. I want to keep the samples in their original folders and I don't want them to be saved into some Import folder in the Ableton Live Library path. Is there any way to avoid this? (Actually, for the Rex-Files I'd like to create Live Clips for the Drum-Racks to keep the midi file that has been created from the Rex-File, but then again, the file is saved once again into some Import folder)...
I dunno man, AFAIK Ableton does not randomly import things into it's library. My sample library is not inside the live library but I've got no problems with Live importing anything. What is this "some import folder" you're talking about?

*edit* although I guess it might have to do with using the instruments. It's not something I do very often.

Jekblad
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Post by Jekblad » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:25 pm

i'm pretty sure it doesn't import EVERYTHING. How else do your files go missing?

I run my sample library of an external without a prob. Live has to analyze that audio, but that's different from importing it.

The only time my stuff get's imported is when i collect all and save, and with that command it's saved within the project folder, NOT the library.


I might be misunderstanding... I use "whatsize" on my mac to delete stuff i don't need, so in know that i don't have a 40gb folder of accidentally imported stuff laying around on the hd.
2.4 ghz Macbook Pro 8gb RAM, SSD, Live 9 Suite, Puremagnetik, Minimal Talent

Angstrom
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Re: Why on earth does Live have to "import" everything??

Post by Angstrom » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:57 pm

loachm wrote: I don't want them to be saved into some Import folder in the Ableton Live Library path. Is there any way to avoid this? .
Yes.

go to preferences -> file and Folder -> Browser Behaviour

see the bit that says "Collect Samples on Export"

choose "Ask" , or "Never" if you really never want this.

Jekblad
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Post by Jekblad » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:40 pm

ahh!

nice one, been so long i forgot
2.4 ghz Macbook Pro 8gb RAM, SSD, Live 9 Suite, Puremagnetik, Minimal Talent

j250x
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Post by j250x » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:52 pm

I just wish that you could split your library across two locations, like an external drive and a internal drive. That or the ability to use two libraries at once.

mholloway
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Post by mholloway » Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:58 am

I'm confused. Can someone answer this related question please -- If I open a new, empty Drum Rack, explore a folder full of various samples that is *not* in my live library, load the drum rack up with samples from there, then click "save" to save that Drum Rack, it appears to me that live is making copies of every sample, rather than just creating a Path that it follows to the original sample locations outside it's own library. E.G. when I open that drum rack in the future, it will load up the copied samples, not the originals that I dragged there when building that kit. am i right here? and if so, where exactly are those samples being copied to?

thank you,

-M
my industrial music made with Ableton Live (as DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER): https://deadwhenifoundher.bandcamp.com/
my dark jazz / noir music made with Ableton Live: https://michaelarthurholloway.bandcamp. ... guilt-noir

alexaaz
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Post by alexaaz » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:25 am

Hi Holloway,

When you save an instrument that uses samples from outside the Live library folder, Live copies the samples into its Samples/Imported folder. If you store your samples in a folder anywhere in the Live library it won't do this however.
e.g.
/samples/Sample Collections/Bla Bla/

Meef, when I switched to Ableton I spent a week importing thousands of patches from exs. No batch import literally cost me a week of my life (instead of a programmer a day!).

Because the library is not explained well I became concerned that my samples might become unlinked from the Ableton instrument files so I had Live import EVERYTHING. I now have an 'imported' folder with 40gigs of samples in just that folder. Even Finder slows down when browsing it. Now, if I'm using a patch that uses samples from that folder & I ask Ableton to find me the sample I can be waiting a minute!

It is impossible for me to reorganize now because the folder is such a jumble. Essentially my EXS library now lives in one folder instead of organized like before. If I had known Live was aware of what was in its Library folder I wouldn't have had this problem. I probably should have thought to see but equally this could just be explained better!

All the best,

Alex

sunaivod
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Post by sunaivod » Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:14 pm

So, is it recommended to have the live libary (+ your own samples inside the live library) on an external drive? Or is that a different story?

If i want to save a project I always do "save as" and create a folder, and "collect all and save" into that folder. Just to be save, and sometimes I backup/zip that project (for safety). I wonder, are there people doing it the same way as I described?

Man, I think too much what's the best way to organize this shit. haha.

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