autmap 3 beta testers

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
mike_o
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Post by mike_o » Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:02 am

you can set any resolution you want with plugins, every plugin I use under automap can be set to custom resolutions or custom step #'s for button accuracy, only under the automap midi client will it go 0-127 only when you are using midi CC#'s, when automapping plugins I have never had that problem, I use custom resolutions on every template I make.

glitchrock-buddha
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Post by glitchrock-buddha » Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:14 am

The thing that bother me the most about plug-in automap is that you have to use a wrapped version of the plug-in. That's a bigger commitment than I'm really ready for. I mean, I've got a bunch of my plug-ins novation wrapped, but if I really start to use them as my default in tracks, and someday something better comes out that doesn't need a wrapper, my tracks are filled with this thin gI don't need anymore. I don't know, I really like the idea, and I do think it works pretty well, I just don't love the wrapper idea. But for hands on control, nothing beats it yet. It really doesn't make it like a hardware synth. Even Kore, which I own, is nowhere near as good for hands on control because there is only 8 knobs. I see it more as a performance thing, like ableton's racks, but way deeper. Novation automap is more sound design/studio oriented. I suppose if you got into the habit of saving your patch when your done creating one, and reloading it with the regular plug-in, you'd be more future proof. Maybe that's what I'll do...
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djsynchro
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Post by djsynchro » Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:19 am

The wrapped plugins still point to the real ones, in any case they mimick the VST ID number so if for whatever reason the wrapped plugs are not available but the "real" one is in your VST folder it will load. AFAIK

Geezus
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Post by Geezus » Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:42 am

glitchrock-buddha wrote:The thing that bother me the most about plug-in automap is that you have to use a wrapped version of the plug-in. That's a bigger commitment than I'm really ready for. I mean, I've got a bunch of my plug-ins novation wrapped, but if I really start to use them as my default in tracks, and someday something better comes out that doesn't need a wrapper, my tracks are filled with this thin gI don't need anymore. I don't know, I really like the idea, and I do think it works pretty well, I just don't love the wrapper idea. But for hands on control, nothing beats it yet. It really doesn't make it like a hardware synth. Even Kore, which I own, is nowhere near as good for hands on control because there is only 8 knobs. I see it more as a performance thing, like ableton's racks, but way deeper. Novation automap is more sound design/studio oriented. I suppose if you got into the habit of saving your patch when your done creating one, and reloading it with the regular plug-in, you'd be more future proof. Maybe that's what I'll do...
you do realize you can wrap them without the gui thing added to the plugin, right? You dont need it with the new automap HUI so I rewrapped all my shit without the automap border, which also fixes some graphic problems I had with plugins that would change size.

And yes to saving your automap universal maps. Here's what I usually end up doing: I clear out the entire map, and start adding things I need hands on control for in a way that makes sense to me. Sometimes I just start adding shit I want to play with as I go in no particular order or reason. I also pay attention to step sizes for ultimate control, so I can create hold buttons instead of toggles or use the buttons/SL encoders to cycle through limited option parameters like waveform or filter type, where there is a fixed number of things to choose from. Then I save the map on my hard drive, and then I save it again as the default. Then I never have to do any of that shit again. even if the default gets fucked up somehow, I still have the backup saved on my hard drive to load up.

Also, the SL and the nocturn are fucking INCREDIBLE performance tools, when used with the MIDI client/map in automap universal. I set all the buttons to hold buttons and from there I can assign on/off stuff to the buttons and plugin parameters for fx and shit to the nobs and faders. Try it, its awesome. Not so good for triggering clips or anything but I'm getting the APC to solve that problem

glitchrock-buddha
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Post by glitchrock-buddha » Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:24 am

djsynchro wrote:The wrapped plugins still point to the real ones, in any case they mimick the VST ID number so if for whatever reason the wrapped plugs are not available but the "real" one is in your VST folder it will load. AFAIK
Wrong. Once the wrapped version is gone, they will not load in any project taht uses them. They are seen as different plug-ins from the original. I've tested it.
Geezus wrote:you do realize you can wrap them without the gui thing added to the plugin, right? You dont need it with the new automap HUI so I rewrapped all my shit without the automap border, which also fixes some graphic problems I had with plugins that would change size.
Ya I know. It was unusable for many plug-ins before the border could be removed.
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tricil
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Post by tricil » Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:24 am

Geezus wrote:
glitchrock-buddha wrote:The thing that bother me the most about plug-in automap is that you have to use a wrapped version of the plug-in. That's a bigger commitment than I'm really ready for. I mean, I've got a bunch of my plug-ins novation wrapped, but if I really start to use them as my default in tracks, and someday something better comes out that doesn't need a wrapper, my tracks are filled with this thin gI don't need anymore. I don't know, I really like the idea, and I do think it works pretty well, I just don't love the wrapper idea. But for hands on control, nothing beats it yet. It really doesn't make it like a hardware synth. Even Kore, which I own, is nowhere near as good for hands on control because there is only 8 knobs. I see it more as a performance thing, like ableton's racks, but way deeper. Novation automap is more sound design/studio oriented. I suppose if you got into the habit of saving your patch when your done creating one, and reloading it with the regular plug-in, you'd be more future proof. Maybe that's what I'll do...
you do realize you can wrap them without the gui thing added to the plugin, right? You dont need it with the new automap HUI so I rewrapped all my shit without the automap border, which also fixes some graphic problems I had with plugins that would change size.

And yes to saving your automap universal maps. Here's what I usually end up doing: I clear out the entire map, and start adding things I need hands on control for in a way that makes sense to me. Sometimes I just start adding shit I want to play with as I go in no particular order or reason. I also pay attention to step sizes for ultimate control, so I can create hold buttons instead of toggles or use the buttons/SL encoders to cycle through limited option parameters like waveform or filter type, where there is a fixed number of things to choose from. Then I save the map on my hard drive, and then I save it again as the default. Then I never have to do any of that shit again. even if the default gets fucked up somehow, I still have the backup saved on my hard drive to load up.

Also, the SL and the nocturn are fucking INCREDIBLE performance tools, when used with the MIDI client/map in automap universal. I set all the buttons to hold buttons and from there I can assign on/off stuff to the buttons and plugin parameters for fx and shit to the nobs and faders. Try it, its awesome. Not so good for triggering clips or anything but I'm getting the APC to solve that problem
No, I think he means having a wrapped version of the plug in that loads differently in the browser like Analog Factory (Automap) instead of simply Analog Factory
MacBook Pro T7600 / OS X 10.5.7 / Ableton Suite 8.0.2 / Peak Pro XT 6.1.1 / ReMOTE 37SL

tricil
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Post by tricil » Mon Jan 26, 2009 4:43 am

Oh, wow, according to the pdf of Automap 3 you don't have to worry about the double Audio Units (AMEN!), but VSTs still load separately:

Mac AU:

A single file is created which holds the information for all wrapped AUs: AUAutomapClient.component

Mac HD > Users > Your user name > Library > Audio > Plug-Ins > Components

A maximum of 256 AU plug-ins can be wrapped.
MacBook Pro T7600 / OS X 10.5.7 / Ableton Suite 8.0.2 / Peak Pro XT 6.1.1 / ReMOTE 37SL

glitchrock-buddha
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Post by glitchrock-buddha » Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:05 am

tricil wrote:Oh, wow, according to the pdf of Automap 3 you don't have to worry about the double Audio Units (AMEN!), but VSTs still load separately:

Mac AU:

A single file is created which holds the information for all wrapped AUs: AUAutomapClient.component
So there's one actual component, but I'm sure they will still load as separate plug-ins. U-he's new uhbik plug-ins are similar. There is only one component, but they load as separate plug-ins in a DAW.

I'm sure you'll still have to load the (Automap) version, which I still don't like. Inevitably one day in the not too distant future, I'll be no longer wanting to use novation wrapped plug-ins, and all have all kinds of half finished tracks still using the wrapped versions, so I won't be able to delete them. Not to mention the irritation of having two of everything, all in the wrong folders all over the place. I can't even find half my automapped plug-ins.
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mike_o
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Post by mike_o » Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:10 am

tricil wrote:Oh, wow, according to the pdf of Automap 3 you don't have to worry about the double Audio Units (AMEN!), but VSTs still load separately:

Mac AU:

A single file is created which holds the information for all wrapped AUs: AUAutomapClient.component

Mac HD > Users > Your user name > Library > Audio > Plug-Ins > Components

A maximum of 256 AU plug-ins can be wrapped.

thats in your file directory, in your sequencer vi/plugin insert menu there will still be "sylenth1" and "Sylenth1(automap)" for every wraped instrument, (in DP and Live at least), in dp you can choose which sets of plugins to load, which helps, but the real problem I have is that when you create an instrument parameter setting and save it under a new patch name, the none automapped versions do not read the patch files.

there are some exceptions, MOTU's MX4, Disco DSP's Discovery MAC and Sylenth 1 all allow you to save settings internally within the VI itself, I believe these are saved to a patch file under preferences somewhere, but they will allow you to create a sound with automap wrapping and then still recall that sound later without the automap wrapped plugins.

always try so save your patches through the VI GUI so they are saved internally within the plugin itself, as it will bypass this short coming of the wrapping system

stutter
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Post by stutter » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:28 pm

glitchrock-buddha wrote:... you have to use a wrapped version of the plug-in. That's a bigger commitment than I'm really ready for...
that phrasing made me laugh, like, "sometimes I worry me and glitchrock-buddha aren't really going anywhere... after all, he won't even commit to his novation automapped plug-ins"

otherwise, I agree... but Novation did start out using vstxml in supported hosts (avoiding the need for wrapped plug-in), but it was not widely enough supported, and it made them vulnerable to host-changes in upgrades, so I can see why they've followed the wrapper approach.
mike_o wrote:you can set any resolution you want with plugins, every plugin I use under automap can be set to custom resolutions
why had I not thought that one through properly. Thanks

djsynchro
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Post by djsynchro » Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:08 pm

,,,

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