live 8 is great but two crucial things were missed

lola · Post by **lola** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:57 pm

Not dissing your request but....

I don't really get it, why would you want to automate in session?

a: you can draw envelops to automate.
b: and if you want to automate real time, you can record the clip you are automating into a other slot.

The only thing is, that it has become static.

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:59 pm

lola wrote: The only thing is, that it has become static.

You've answered your own question.

Not to mention that manually bouncing every clip to audio isn't exactly very ergonomic in the flow of composition.

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:04 pm

lola wrote:Not dissing your request but....

I don't really get it, why would you want to automate in session?

a: you can draw envelops to automate.
b: and if you want to automate real time, you can record the clip you are automating into a other slot.

The only thing is, that it has become static.

well, suppose you're jamming along with a synth, everyone loves filter sweeps, so you grab a filter control and get a wicked sound, timed just right, just the right sweep and feel. you can't capture that love into session view, you can't mimic it by drawing it (it's a feel thing.) that's the spirit of what people would like.

lola · Post by **lola** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:16 pm

Tone Deft wrote:
lola wrote:Not dissing your request but....

I don't really get it, why would you want to automate in session?

a: you can draw envelops to automate.
b: and if you want to automate real time, you can record the clip you are automating into a other slot.

The only thing is, that it has become static.
well, suppose you're jamming along with a synth, everyone loves filter sweeps, so you grab a filter control and get a wicked sound, timed just right, just the right sweep and feel. you can't capture that love into session view, you can't mimic it by drawing it (it's a feel thing.) that's the spirit of what people would like.

Coming from a background to work without automation, in the past i made records with 303's sh101's 808's 909's 727's 707's all automated by hand loll, and let the faulty tweaks sit in the song....because of the raw feel.

i understand now.
You are right , mimic it with drawing env's doesn't cut it, it lacks spontanism
But you can record it afterwards in the arrange right, if you would?

twisted-space · Post by **twisted-space** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:20 pm

Only If you record into arrange, I don't tend to do that while I'm playing.

Korhan · Post by **Korhan** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:30 am

One thing I'd like to clarify in my mind about session view automation:

What do you mean by session view automation? Is it something different than drawing envelopes in audio/midi clips that control the parameters of that channels effects and instruments?

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:32 am

Korhan wrote:One thing I'd like to clarify in my mind about session view automation:

What do you mean by session view automation? Is it something different than drawing envelopes in audio/midi clips that control the parameters of that channels effects and instruments?

Tone Deft's example was a good one. Think of it this way - the automation envelopes you can draw into session view clips should also be recordable by directly manipulating knobs in the interface.

quandry · Post by **quandry** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:42 am

I can see the usefulness of this feature request, and think it is important to read Robert's post to understand the difficulties Ableton faces in implementing this request. If you take the time to read his post, it should be obvious that the care about this request, have thoroughly looked into ways of solving the problem, and the bottom line is that it isn't as simple as one might think. It's understandable that some people are bummed/upset, but some of the trash-talking is way outta line--Ableton is more responsive and involved with it's customers than any music app, period.

Maybe I don't understand people's particular setups or workflows, but can't you just hit the global record and record everything into arrangerview, including real-time midi cc's, "session automation", etc.? Sure, not much of a solution for "live looping" on stage or whatever, but clearly gets the job done in the studio, right? It just doesn't seem like the prohibitive deal-breaker that people are making it out to be...

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:44 am

quandry wrote:I can see the usefulness of this feature request, and think it is important to read Robert's post to understand the difficulties Ableton faces in implementing this request.

I appreciate that he's taken the time to explain why this hasn't happened but at the same time many of us have been waiting for this since midi first appeared in version 4 and it seems totally fundamental to the greatest strength of Live, the session view.

So it's hard to be patient for another year or two while a lot of features that also seem pretty large and complex get added.

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:45 am

quandry wrote:I can see the usefulness of this feature request, and think it is important to read Robert's post to understand the difficulties Ableton faces in implementing this request. If you take the time to read his post, it should be obvious that the care about this request, have thoroughly looked into ways of solving the problem, and the bottom line is that it isn't as simple as one might think. It's understandable that some people are bummed/upset, but some of the trash-talking is way outta line--Ableton is more responsive and involved with it's customers than any music app, period.

Maybe I don't understand people's particular setups or workflows, but can't you just hit the global record and record everything into arrangerview, including real-time midi cc's, "session automation", etc.? Sure, not much of a solution for "live looping" on stage or whatever, but clearly gets the job done in the studio, right? It just doesn't seem like the prohibitive deal-breaker that people are making it out to be...

There will be "acceptable" workarounds with Max for Live. We could have event recorders that allows us to control envelopes at variable speeds. Or maybe a hack that automatically copies automation from arrangement view to selected clips in session view. We'll only know once we get to try it. And who knows, mayb estuff like this will be part of the example library.

Korhan · Post by **Korhan** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:56 am

Ok thanks for the clarification. I hadn't paid much attention to this feature before because I don't need it that much. However, I can see its usefulness for many people and I would use it too if I had it.