Price for MFL?????

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
deva
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Post by deva » Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:08 am

Machinesworking wrote: My biggest questions now are if Jitter is going to be integrated in Live in a way to use it real time. So you could run videos synced to the music, that fired different parts when different clips or scenes are fired? This would be freaking awsome! 8O
Yes, the C74 guy said that would be possible

Korhan
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Post by Korhan » Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:29 am

Hey, I'm gonna buy MfL and sit back and let all the geeks make cool devices which I will use
True! :-) But still...

Max/MSP is a tool that has one big serious disadvantage. It's possibilities are almost endless and it's quite easy to spend months on a big project that has all the new synthesis methods, cool processing algorithms, etc that ends up sounding like shit. This is because, with software like Max (PD, Csound, SC), some users fall into the trap of focusing on the process rather than the result. They are amazed by their own creating of highly complex setups and forget all about the actual sound, which is the only thing the listener cares about. Engineering over art and aesthetics.
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Johnisfaster
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Post by Johnisfaster » Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:32 am

beats me wrote:
mikemc wrote:Then EVERYone will buy it without a thought, just to get the step sequencer, etc., rather than just a handful of dweebs.
When I saw the video on the step sequencer I thought how is that any different than Live's piano roll? .
I thought the exact same thing.
It was as if someone shook up a 6 foot can of blood soda and suddenly popped the top.

SMonk
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Post by SMonk » Sat Jan 17, 2009 9:06 am

Korhan wrote:
Hey, I'm gonna buy MfL and sit back and let all the geeks make cool devices which I will use
True! :-) But still...

Max/MSP is a tool that has one big serious disadvantage. It's possibilities are almost endless and it's quite easy to spend months on a big project that has all the new synthesis methods, cool processing algorithms, etc that ends up sounding like shit. This is because, with software like Max (PD, Csound, SC), some users fall into the trap of focusing on the process rather than the result. They are amazed by their own creating of highly complex setups and forget all about the actual sound, which is the only thing the listener cares about. Engineering over art and aesthetics.
There's nothing really wrong with that, though. It's like (some) 20th century art music (serialism, cluster music etc). It's mostly horrible to listen to, but quite interesting to read about and analyze.

Obviously, the audience is much smaller than the one You'd get with a more populist approach.

Machinesworking
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Post by Machinesworking » Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:39 am

Tone Deft wrote:
Machinesworking wrote:My guess is MFL will cost between $300 and $479. It includes everything from the Max/MSP Jitter package, and I don't think there's any way it will get bellow $300, hope I'm wrong but.
Image


run videos synced to the music, that fired different parts when different clips or scenes are fired? This would be freaking awsome! 8O
get a music video from archive.org or the band's web site, drop it into track 1 in arrange view, warp the music (video follows.) put track markers on interesting parts of the track, assign those to a midi note. hit play, play those notes, you're doing real time video cuts. you can also mute the audio on track 1, and cut the video to other music (play with the 'back to arrangement button'). then there's the midi feedback control trick to automtically cut up the video. and so on...
The other one is on copy protection. Cycling 74 don't allow you to sell Max/MSP, and they use either PACE or iLock. How does this work with MFL? Are we going to see PACE/iLock and what exactly are they going to offer the random person who gives up on Live, decides that Logic/Cubase/Pro Tools is more to their needs? None of this is really that important to me, but like you guys are mentioning, if you get desperate to get more CPU and want to offline process some Jitter stuff on another computer, is PACE gonna kick in and screw the pooch??
once data hits Live, the tiger is out of its cage. run max runtime (free) and rewire the data into that or use UDP, I don't know how video would be transmitted, I'm sure it can be done, it's freaking jitter and max, you can do anything you want.
Just wanted to say a major FUCK YES!! To all this! I'm looking forward to this. This is what Logic should have done with the Environment, their customizable MIDI set up not unlike Max. Apple blew it though, and Ableton/Cycling are definitely crushing all! My first goal Max wise is a replicant of the Step sequencer Emagic made for the Environment, modeled after CV/gate sequencers. 8)

forge
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Post by forge » Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:16 am

condra wrote:
deva wrote: Hey, I'm gonna buy MfL and sit back and let all the geeks make cool devices which I will use :-)
My new sig. :lol:

.

Okay - I'm getting confused now - I was sure Gerhard said in the video that you don't have to own it to use the devices, but I just found this post on the C74 forum from Jeremy, one of the guys who's been working on it
OK, here's the "definitive answer":

Users cannot use Max Devices without installing Max, obviously. Once Max is installed, they can use them, but they have to put Live into demo mode, if they don't own Max for Live.

So maybe this is not exactly what you were hoping for, but you can probably understand why it is going to work this way.

jb
http://www.cycling74.com/forums/index.p ... msg_162506

Keddy
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Post by Keddy » Sat Jan 17, 2009 3:49 pm

For those individuals discussing live6 to 8 upgrades and whatnot, Go check your upgrade to live7 page in the shop. I saw something this morning to the effect of "live6 to live7 upgrade - 0 USD" Go check.

I would agree with a $300+ cost for MFL, which is a sweet deal for someone like myself who was very much interested in getting into max, but not really into dropping $600 for it. Back to the point though, it's a massive piece of quality software with endless possibilities. I think people are looking at it and going, "that's a lot of money for a step sequencer patch." Well, it's not a f#cking STEP SEQUENCER PATCH!!! It's so much more. It's a programming environment that other individuals are doing so much with outside of music creation.

Stop whining.
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kb420
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Post by kb420 » Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:41 pm

I can't see Max for Live costing more than $299 personally, but it remains to be seen exactly what it will cost.
H20nly wrote:fuck Bitwig.

deva
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Post by deva » Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:08 pm

Korhan wrote:
Hey, I'm gonna buy MfL and sit back and let all the geeks make cool devices which I will use
True! :-) But still...

Max/MSP is a tool that has one big serious disadvantage. It's possibilities are almost endless and it's quite easy to spend months on a big project that has all the new synthesis methods, cool processing algorithms, etc that ends up sounding like shit. This is because, with software like Max (PD, Csound, SC), some users fall into the trap of focusing on the process rather than the result. They are amazed by their own creating of highly complex setups and forget all about the actual sound, which is the only thing the listener cares about. Engineering over art and aesthetics.
I am not interested in synths etc... I am personally excited about Max for Live for midi effects, cool step sequencers, etc etc... the sorts of midi tools Live is weak in. I have all the cool synths and effects I need.

forge
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Post by forge » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:43 am

I'm beginning to think - if the max devices are not available for all Live users then there should maybe be a runtime version that's a lot cheaper (or even free like the Max one) that allows you to use devices created by others

it seems like there are a lot of people who just want to use the devices others have created, and it seems a bit unfair for them to have to buy the full version

Reaktor does this

Poster
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Post by Poster » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:05 am

forge wrote:I'm beginning to think - if the max devices are not available for all Live users then there should maybe be a runtime version that's a lot cheaper (or even free like the Max one) that allows you to use devices created by others

it seems like there are a lot of people who just want to use the devices others have created, and it seems a bit unfair for them to have to buy the full version

Reaktor does this
did that.. Reaktor Session has been discontinued for a while now..
maybe because of loss of Reaktor sales? because I think a good portion of users would just use ensembles without wanting to edit the guts..
that might have been a point of discussion for mfl as well..

Hertz SM
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Post by Hertz SM » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:14 am

Poster: "that might have been a point of discussion for mfl as well.."

Me thinks that any discussion about "MFL Session" is needless as long as there's no well equipped library for passive MFL-users. No beef -> no interest.

forge
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Post by forge » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:22 am

Poster wrote:
forge wrote:I'm beginning to think - if the max devices are not available for all Live users then there should maybe be a runtime version that's a lot cheaper (or even free like the Max one) that allows you to use devices created by others

it seems like there are a lot of people who just want to use the devices others have created, and it seems a bit unfair for them to have to buy the full version

Reaktor does this
did that.. Reaktor Session has been discontinued for a while now..
maybe because of loss of Reaktor sales? because I think a good portion of users would just use ensembles without wanting to edit the guts..
that might have been a point of discussion for mfl as well..
yeah I guess - but I can't imagine how they could give people the whole version of max/msp/jitter for that much less than $699, but it seems a bit harsh to charge people that much if they only want to use other's ensembles

anyway...we'll see

Poster
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Post by Poster » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:25 am

Hertz SM wrote:Poster: "that might have been a point of discussion for mfl as well.."

Me thinks that any discussion about "MFL Session" is needless as long as there's no well equipped library for passive MFL-users. No beef -> no interest.
me thinks free and open source user libraries will pop up in no time after the release..
you see what it did for Reaktor? I guess that is what Ableton and Cycling want to happen as well..

huge and free patch archive = massive attraction

Hertz SM
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Post by Hertz SM » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:30 am

Poster wrote:huge and free patch archive = massive attraction
I really, really hope that'll happen. :)

(though some posts on this server say that MAX users seem to be sort of elite and therefore not willing to share...)

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