does anybody actually use the Export Normalize option?

[Aequitas123]

so after reading this post i have a question:

Why did ableton include a Normalize option?


Is it only to use up any further headroom available?

[memes_33]

i use it to louden things up a little bit when bouncing a rough mix down to listen to on an ipod/car stereo. if i remember correctly, its best to normailze (if you want to) when dithering (if doing so).

[3dot...]

never use it...
though I could use it as right click on audio clips...

[Khazul]

Interesting side note: Live's normalize brings the overall volume up.... or DOWN... to make the peak hit 0.0 dB.

The DOWN bit then is IMHO potentially useful for those not using a limiter.

Of course with the right gain structure through your mix - your shouldnt be overshooting 0db on the master bus anyway, still - a useful safety net given the number of people who boohoo the concept of starting with track level down at sometiing like -12dB instead of 0 (and hence probably have to pull their master bus level down etc) if they actually notice it regularly going into the red and realising its a problem - yeh - it seems many do not

[anamexis]

although, does it actually normalise each track when you say 'render all tracks' with normalise enabled?

or does it just figure out how to normalise the whole thing and apply that to each track?

I was also wondering this, so I gave it a test.
In short, it does normalise each track (and destroy relative gain).
I made three drum tracks. Here are their peaks in Live, before export:


Then I re-imported the audio files to compare levels.
Here is the control, with no normalization:


And here is with the tracks normalized. Bye bye, relative gain!


So, normalizing when rendering all tracks does not attenuate the tracks equally, but individually, so that they are all fully normalized.

[icedsushi]

When to normalize - after running thorugh a limiter to get the desired dynamic range - the normalizing will bring the level up to the desired level. In this case normalize to a tiny bit below 0dB, for eg -0.3dB.

When loading a sample into a sampler and you dont care about that sample's current relative level with other samples, however you do want that sample to make the best use of the dynamic range of the sampler - for eg 16 bit sample that had to be down converted to say 12 bit to load it into an Elektron machine drum, so you are trying to make the most of the available dynamic range in the sampler.

Why to avoid normalizing anything whose entire signal chain is not known to 0dB (ie you didnt record it, it came from a sa,mple library etc)? - if (for eg) a kick sample has allready been brick wall limited or worst, simply clipped by a cheap brick wall limiter approach, then you may end up with consective samples at or near peak level. When that clipped waveform is reconstructed (in the analog domain) then it can result in values above 0BFS - ie it could actually clip. Therefore when normalizing potentially clipped samples, dont normalise any higher than say -3dB, this will give you some room back for the waveform reconstruction to occure without clipping. Note - this isnt just at the point of use, but anywhere is the subsequent processing chain - ie dont let you kick drum sample hit full scale when you limit your track - it might actually distrort horribly on some equipement and not others.

In modern production the two point of normalizing are usally down sampling - the machine drum example above to maximise available dynamic range and the implie normalization that tends to occure as a consequence of settig a brick wall limiter's outpur level on you master bus to -0.3dbFS while your master bus is at zero. Effectively the limiter outputs a signal normalized to whatever its output level is set to.

Hope that makes seome sense.

IMHO in a daw its not a function that you will generally need to use, or at least not on its own.

Interesting side note: Live's normalize brings the overall volume up.... or DOWN... to make the peak hit 0.0 dB.

As for how much noise it adds, etc... use it if you need to (like when you want to export a ton of samples without having to mess with the volume each time)... and don't worry so much about the noise. I bet bad mixing skills and poor EQ choices or brickwall limiters add more "noise" to your mixes anyway

This is some good info here, seems like there is a narrow focus where normalize might be useful. So I have always avoided normalize, but I have an application where normalize might benefit?

I'm sampling some drum machines & instruments, all at 24 bit one-shot samples with a single transient, not tracks. The levels of all the samples tend to vary between -16db to -1 db. It would be a lot quicker to trim them in Live & use the consolidate function, but consolidate does normalize the sample so I hesitated.

But maybe this is a good thing though, then all the samples will be equal volume starting point for mixing when loaded into Sampler. I pulled up some other one-shot drum samples I bought & noticed most of them are normalized, when you drag them onto a track & launch the clip they all hit 0db. They sound good to me though. Opinions for pros/cons normalizing one-shot samples this kind of application creating 24 bit one-shot sample libraries? Theoretically, the sample to noise ratio should be the same once the volume is reduced within Sampler & mixed in a project.

[memes_33]

After reading Bob Katz's book, I try to stay away from normalizing. I dont have the book at hand, but my understanding is that it raises the volume based on some mathematical formula..so there goes the art from all your mixing!

when you use your faders, you are raising the volume "based on some mathematical formula". in fact, anything you do with audio once it is digital is based on some mathematical formula! normalizing is basically finding the loudest part of your audio and turning the master fader up so that that loudest point is at or right next to zero (digital clip).

unfortunately, normalizing in live does not offer a level to normalize to- it would be nice, for example, to normalize to -1dB instead of 0 dB. there is a phenomenon called "inter-sample" clipping or peaking. while your sample may never hit 0 dB, the algorithm used for how the audio behaves BETWEEN samples can peak above 0 dB. SSL has a great free plugin you can use to detect if this is actually happening - http://www.solid-state-logic.com/music/X-ISM/index.asp

[H20nly]

RIP leeds.

[RhinoInRio]

I will try to put it simply:
The Normalization should be used if you want to make a CD (‘pseudo’ Red Book). That means all your peaks in your song will be the top margin of your mix. Either by calculating your entire song up or down, so that the highest peak ends up at 0dB after normalization.

This is something completly different than putting a limiter into your mix! A Limiter "chokes" the peaks to a desired level, mostly making it sound 'mushy' when used improperly or excessivly.
Usually when you have a song (not yet normalized), it has (virtual) peaks that go beyond the 0dB, causing audible/inaudible distortions. Yet many of these 'distortions' are sometimes only a few samples long, too short to be noticed by the human ear. Try it yourself... pump up the mix beyond your red region - it sounds awful. Digital distorion sucks, and you don't want that.

So, either you can turn up your speakers during a mix and watch out for the peaks and use a little limitation (if you want 'breathy' and clear mixes) or if this is too complicated just use the normalization.

There is a big difference for what use you intend on using Live. Of course, when you use Live live on stage it is quite difficult controlling yourself from pushing the signal into the reds. I've seen DJ's using Live only in the reds and squashing the signal with a Limiter. IMHO it sounded bad and that gives Live a bad name and the DJ.

So again, if you intend on making a CD with a couple of songs – normalize them. The problem now is that if you listen to these, some songs may appear quieter than others. Remember – your reference is now at 0dB. The best way of correcting this would be to import the normalized rendered tracks back into Live. Use your “quietest” song as your reference now and bring the “louder” ones down by a couple of dB’s to match the overall impression of the loudness of your entire CD.

I hope this helps a little….
My humble two cents.

[Guff Tong]

RIP leeds.

I just did the same: read the post from page one and there he was...

..Still giving advice from the big crib in the sky....