[OT] A realization, banks and the financial system

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mikemc
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[OT] A realization, banks and the financial system

Post by mikemc » Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:39 pm

At this point, banks and the financial do nothing for you but take your money. That is, if you put your money in, it is almost guaranteed you will get less out.

The user of the system is financing it's [edit] the system's aversion to risk, and the only "non risky" contracts are ones with no benefit to the credit consumer (high interest rates and sneaky terms that tack on fees and jack up rates) and as such the contracts are not worth much.

But it is difficult to disentangle oneself from the banking system. If you have direct deposit, you need a bank. If you want to cash your paycheck, you need a bank. Non-physical money transfers need a bank: a system has been constructed where it always costs money to use your money.

In the cases where there are benefits to the system, these have been nullified: if one is fortunate and has a 401k with an employer contribution that also goes into that, in the last little while (depending on the plan) either your contribution or your employer's contribution has been washed out (or all of one and some of the other).

In essence, even if you have diversified, as the wisdom goes, and have something in stocks, and something in your 401k that includes bonds, and an interest bearing checking account and even some real estate, you have lost.

What this means is that a larger number of people than ever are living paycheck to paycheck.

[edit] and also that it seems like they will be doing that for years.

forge
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Post by forge » Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:55 pm

the world is in transition - that's for sure

my 71 year old uncle and aunt worked hard their whole lives and set up a nice nest egg for themselves - and because of these greedy banker fucks they have lost more than half of their savings and may well end up on government pension

so what kind of incentive is that for our generations to save for retirement if there is a strong chance some cunning banker arsehole will only steal it anyway?

keep your cash under your mattress! :lol:

EDIT: on the positive side - I've been listening to music like Joy Division and the Cure again lately - post-punk that grew out of shitty economic times - maybe we'll find a nice platform for a new musical resurgence

Moody
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Post by Moody » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:15 pm

It's a setup. :?
Ableton’s engineers are hard
at work developing code that will allow our software to predict the future, but we don’t
anticipate having this available until at least the next major release.

mikemc
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Post by mikemc » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:16 pm

forge wrote: EDIT: on the positive side - I've been listening to music like Joy Division and the Cure again lately - post-punk that grew out of shitty economic times - maybe we'll find a nice platform for a new musical resurgence
glumcore :D

forge
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Post by forge » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:20 pm

mikemc wrote:
forge wrote: EDIT: on the positive side - I've been listening to music like Joy Division and the Cure again lately - post-punk that grew out of shitty economic times - maybe we'll find a nice platform for a new musical resurgence
glumcore :D
nothing "core" about it

straight up 'glum'

mikemc
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Post by mikemc » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:26 pm

forge wrote:
mikemc wrote:
forge wrote: EDIT: on the positive side - I've been listening to music like Joy Division and the Cure again lately - post-punk that grew out of shitty economic times - maybe we'll find a nice platform for a new musical resurgence
glumcore :D
nothing "core" about it

straight up 'glum'
:lol: :D :) 8O :| :cry:

crumhorn
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Post by crumhorn » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:28 pm

mikemc wrote:
forge wrote:
mikemc wrote: glumcore :D
nothing "core" about it

straight up 'glum'
:lol: :D :) 8O :| :cry:
Glum Rock?
"The banjo is the perfect instrument for the antisocial."

(Allow me to plug my guitar scale visualiser thingy - www.fretlearner.com)

liveISlife
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Post by liveISlife » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:34 pm

You know those guys that used to sail around with a pirate flag and plunder shit? Yeah they are the same dudes running the financial system. What, you just thought they disappeared somewhere? Well they kind of did disappear or should I say morphed. THEY WEAR SUITS AND TIES NOW!

Low Frequency Obstinator
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Post by Low Frequency Obstinator » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:35 pm

I think if we should all go back to the bartering system and trade our comodities/services with each other and take ugly 'cash' right out of the loop.

I'll start the proceedings by playing all my future gigs for the rider and birds alone. :wink:

My painter/decorator brother in-law has been made redundent recently so is currently decorating my house. Payment will be in food, weed and beer.
Food from my allotment, weed from the attic and beer from my home brew of 'Liquid Brains' (not quite as strong as last years 'Skull Crusher' but less of a hangover).

See, I could pay him with cash...... but he'd only blow it all on useless crap!
Live (yoghurt) - MBP- Circuit Bent Rampant Rabbit - Mongolian Nose Flute - 'The Marvelous Mechanical Mouse Organ' (on loan from Bagpuss) and a Swanee Whistle made from a used heroin syringe.

brightonalex
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Post by brightonalex » Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:51 pm

crumhorn wrote:
mikemc wrote:
forge wrote: nothing "core" about it

straight up 'glum'
:lol: :D :) 8O :| :cry:
Glum Rock?
Glum n Bass?

pulsoc
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Re: [OT] A realization, banks and the financial system

Post by pulsoc » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:13 pm

mikemc wrote:At this point, banks and the financial do nothing for you but take your money. That is, if you put your money in, it is almost guaranteed you will get less out.
I think part of the problem is that people assume that investing will yield ridiculous interest margins. Join a credit union and dump everything into savings, your balance will never decrease. Will it unrealistically skyrocket? No, but then maybe that's how a SUSTAINABLE economy should work.

Also, if people are living to 80-90 years of age, maybe it's unrealistic to expect a 30 year retirement. Get back to work, and contribute something!

Geezus
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Post by Geezus » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:16 pm

Low Frequency Obstinator wrote:I think if we should all go back to the bartering system and trade our comodities/services with each other and take ugly 'cash' right out of the loop.

I'll start the proceedings by playing all my future gigs for the rider and birds alone. :wink:

My painter/decorator brother in-law has been made redundent recently so is currently decorating my house. Payment will be in food, weed and beer.
Food from my allotment, weed from the attic and beer from my home brew of 'Liquid Brains' (not quite as strong as last years 'Skull Crusher' but less of a hangover).

See, I could pay him with cash...... but he'd only blow it all on useless crap!
the dumb bartering system is why money was invented in the first place. If I'm a fisherman who wants a piece of bread, but the bread guy already has fish but needs a knife, I gotta then go to the knife guy to see if he wants fish so I can get a knife for the bread guy. But he doesnt need any fish either, but needs his shoes fixed, so I gotta go to the shoe guy and so on and so forth. Money solves this problem by creating a token that everyone can use for all goods and services.

The problem is that banks control the money being printed, and they charge interest on every "unit", thus forcing everything into perpetual debt. This leads to things like inflation and deflation, both as a result of the system being based on "debt" instead of the currency itself. Money needs to be controlled to represent actual resources, including labor and services. I dont know how that could be done but I do know that money becomes a useless token if its worth is no longer based on the goods and services available in the market and instead is based on arbitrary debts created by interest rates on printed money and interbank loans and inflation.

creature
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Post by creature » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:26 pm

I hate banks. Although I had better keep that quite as I write software for one. lol

Steve

ethios4
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Post by ethios4 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:26 pm

We're going ever deeper in Keynesian economics, which is the economic model that got us into this mess in the first place. It seems a bit like thinking you can drink your way to sobriety.

Daim
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Post by Daim » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:33 pm

it's pretty easy to blame the banks.. but they are only one of maaaaaany reasons.. the public just needs someone who is easy to blame.

don't trust the media

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