Scary thread about Live on KVR - please address!

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jamester
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Scary thread about Live on KVR - please address!

Post by jamester » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:24 pm

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=240364 (page three)

Just as I'm about to make Live my one and only, this comes up about recording latency; news to me, but I've never used Live for intense recording/mixing. I'm surprised I haven't heard about this here, with so many full-on Live users...


Starts on the second post of Page 3, by vieris:
I love Live but i had to stop using it to record midi & audio. It records post latency. So in other words it dosen't record what you play. It records the delayed output that you hear.

There is a PITA is a workaround.
Tracks record in time if you turn off the monitoring for that track.
So you need to make 2 tracks for every live input.

One to be the record track.
One to be the monitor source or VSTi track...
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Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:30 pm

he's just some retard on the web.

"Live records post latency"??? wtf does that mean? he doesn't know what latency means. you mean I can record 'pre-latency'?

I'm pretty picky with hearing my playing delayed with any bit of latency. I crank my soundcard up to 192kHz sampling rate, leave the track enabled and play with <5mS of latency. it's the year 2009, DAWs have been around for decades, this level of bad DAW design doesn't exist.
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Mehalic
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Post by Mehalic » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:33 pm

I've never had this happen to me and I record a bunch of friends who come over to jam (3 mics, drums, guitar and bass). So, I would put that on his sound interface (without reading the thread). I have also recorded bands and I have never came across this (using live since v3).

Just my experience though. If this was a big issue, I'm sure you would see it plastered all over the board.
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LoopStationZebra
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Post by LoopStationZebra » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:33 pm

Whenever you record & monitor midi & audio thru live it records not what you play, but the delayed output with system & plugin latency.
oh my

.lol.

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Post by Mehalic » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:36 pm

I thought it was a new feature in Live8....

Those Abes think of everything...
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Tone Deft
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Post by Tone Deft » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:36 pm

I found the post, he's talking about 'plug in delay compensation' being inconsistent and that to him it's linked with CPU load.

it could be a problem, I've read others having complaints about PDC (plugin delay compensation) I've never run across it or maybe I didn't notice.


bottom line, he pushes Live, PDC is inconsistent, he doesn't like it. I can buy that, but I've never had that problem.
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LoopStationZebra
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Post by LoopStationZebra » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:45 pm

The issue is fairly well known, yet seems to have been 'discovered' in that thread. By the end of the last page, the entire issue has ballooned into a criminal act on the part of Ableton and that Live is unusable as a 'live' tool. Oh, the humanity.

j2j
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Re: Scary thread about Live on KVR - please address!

Post by j2j » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:48 pm

vieris

The same guy who sold his URS channel strip, because he couldn't tell the difference between it and freeware.
So in other words it dosen't record what you play. It records the delayed output that you hear.
Lovely..

This is a classic example of not havning in's and out's set up properly. Also a classic example of a cheap ass audio card.
Scary thread about Live on KVR - please address!
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kb420
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Post by kb420 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:59 pm

I hate to say this, but he is right.

I noticed the same thing when I was tracking my Motif ES into Live.

Here is the scenario. I slave my Motif to Live. I arm the proper tracks in Live to record the incoming signal from my Motif via mlan.

When I'm done recording, I do find that I have to nudge the tracks ever so slightly in Live. I never have this problem when I do the same thing with Sonar.

I'm using a q6600 overclocked to 3ghz, and I can still notice it, but believe me, it's nothing at all to complain about in my situation.
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Post by Hidden Driveways » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:00 pm

The OP in that thread is just the usual case of someone who spent a lot of money on Logic slowly coming to grips with the fact that they like using Live better.

jamester
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Post by jamester » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:09 pm

Hidden Driveways wrote:The OP in that thread is just the usual case of someone who spent a lot of money on Logic slowly coming to grips with the fact that they like using Live better.
This is not about the OP, it's about the discussion starting on page three by Vieris.
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j2j
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Post by j2j » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:12 pm

kb420 wrote:I hate to say this, but he is right.

I noticed the same thing when I was tracking my Motif ES into Live.

Here is the scenario. I slave my Motif to Live. I arm the proper tracks in Live to record the incoming signal from my Motif via mlan.

When I'm done recording, I do find that I have to nudge the tracks ever so slightly in Live. I never have this problem when I do the same thing with Sonar.

I'm using a q6600 overclocked to 3ghz, and I can still notice it, but believe me, it's nothing at all to complain about in my situation.

I hate to say it but: It sure as hell sounds like, you don't have your ins and outs set up properly. You are probably getting extra latency from incorrect settings.
Last edited by j2j on Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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kb420
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Post by kb420 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:14 pm

It would be nice if someone from Ableton would chime in on this. I've downloaded the sample set, and I can verify that what he is saying is true. For anyone that want to try it, here is the link from the KVR forum.

http://www.rhythminmind.net/temp/Random ... roject.zip
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kb420
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Post by kb420 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:14 pm

j2j wrote:
kb420 wrote:I hate to say this, but he is right.

I noticed the same thing when I was tracking my Motif ES into Live.

Here is the scenario. I slave my Motif to Live. I arm the proper tracks in Live to record the incoming signal from my Motif via mlan.

When I'm done recording, I do find that I have to nudge the tracks ever so slightly in Live. I never have this problem when I do the same thing with Sonar.

I'm using a q6600 overclocked to 3ghz, and I can still notice it, but believe me, it's nothing at all to complain about in my situation.



I hate to say it but: It sure as hell sounds like, you don't have your ins and outs set up properly.

You are probably getting extra latency from incorrect settings.

No. That's not the problem. I use mlan for Sonar and Live with the same settings. I don't have a problem in Sonar. It only happens in Live.


Like I said before, it isn't a deal breaker at all, but he is right.
Last edited by kb420 on Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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jamester
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Post by jamester » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:14 pm

I don't use external instruments (well, guitar and vocals but nothing midi). I do use some VI's like AD along with Live's Drum Racks and Impulse. Is this issue something I need to be concerned about?

It seems like there's a lot of different things being described in the discussion...from monitoring input recording, to external instrument midi clocks, to PDC problems, to delays when routing recorded tracks through busses etc...

I need some clarity from those who truly know what they're doing with Live.
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