Steinberg getting real on pricing - finally !

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
leedsquietman
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Post by leedsquietman » Sat Feb 14, 2009 2:28 am

I don't know yet if they will offer an educational discount on Live 8 if you had Live 7 on educational, but they did on Live 7 for upgrading from live 6, so I assumed that would remain the same.

Do you qualify for educational discount status ?? Maybe there was a misunderstanding in your communication ???
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Jekblad
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Post by Jekblad » Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:38 am

as someone pretty new to the game when starting out with Live, i wish they would have bundled operator and sampler, and just given us the bread and butter stuff to start out with.

Does it sell a TON more copies? maybe not, but it'll make a lot of people happy when they do buy it.
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leedsquietman
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Post by leedsquietman » Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:21 am

I think they could include Operator at least, it's a great synth to showcase Live. Even if they upped the basic price of Live by 30 or 40 bucks, they should think about it. I don't think they will sell a ton of addons to new customers.
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Machinesworking
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Post by Machinesworking » Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:03 am

Jekblad wrote:as someone pretty new to the game when starting out with Live, i wish they would have bundled operator and sampler, and just given us the bread and butter stuff to start out with.

Does it sell a TON more copies? maybe not, but it'll make a lot of people happy when they do buy it.
Sampler should come with Live IMO. The rest I like the option to buy separately better.

Jekblad
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Post by Jekblad » Sat Feb 14, 2009 5:25 am

You know what? Ur right. Sampler setup with some virtual oscillation patches would be tight, for a beginner. I think it's a little easier to grasp than operator in certain ways.

Either way, I had to use reason for a long time cuz live didn't come with ANYTHING. That was a dark time. And still is a bit, I'm waiting and planning on buying that there wonderful suite
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Airwave
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Post by Airwave » Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:11 am

hoffman2k wrote:
Can I take over your job? I'm more motivated and I'll be a breath of fresh air to the students compared to your attitude ;)

Greedy.. So what would you have paid to have this all in hardware?

I remain totally impartial when it comes to the sequencers and software, and teach those students a software independent method. It's not an ableton live course, still as I am open minded, I am using Ableton Live although I might have mixed feelings now.

Bjorn, you're hitting hard here, don't say things you might regret afterwards. You don't even know me and you've never been to those lessons. That is not because you know the software like no one else on this site, and I think even better than Ableton themselves, that you can afford yourself this attitude, either.

I think a software company's kinda greedy once you have to pay for analog when it eats up to 5 times as much cpu as a FREE subtractive synth that does the job equally, and when tension's interface is not user-friendly at all, also when you don't have standard surround support, when the user library is for boxed-versions only most of the time, when every single option will set you 129 Euro off, when the company charges you amounts for orchestral libraries while it's in the package @ the competition. And the list goes on and on.

For everything else, I think that Ableton Live is the best piece of software I have ever seen, honestly. Operator, Sampler, Simpler, Drum racks... Everything that's been developed @ Ableton HQ is GREAT. The marketing and commercial policies around do suck. BTW, MAX for Live should be integrated in the Suite, not a paying option.

As for hardware... welcome to the 21st century, welcome to 2009, while a huge and silent crisis has been hitting everyone's wallet for years before the media just spread the "news". The hardware synth era is over, and almost everything is free now. Not that I don't want to pay for the upgrade, I will, and I'll keep on using Live... but 149 is too much (and more if I want the new optional instruments). 99 is more than enough.

Ableton tend to forget that artist pockets are getting empty too, because we don't sell many downloads and it pays 5x less than cd or vinyl did. No artists with money, no one to buy Live... Don't underestimate this last point.
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hoffman2k
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Post by hoffman2k » Sat Feb 14, 2009 11:34 am

Airwave wrote:
hoffman2k wrote:
Can I take over your job? I'm more motivated and I'll be a breath of fresh air to the students compared to your attitude ;)

Greedy.. So what would you have paid to have this all in hardware?

I remain totally impartial when it comes to the sequencers and software, and teach those students a software independent method. It's not an ableton live course, still as I am open minded, I am using Ableton Live although I might have mixed feelings now.

Bjorn, you're hitting hard here, don't say things you might regret afterwards. You don't even know me and you've never been to those lessons. That is not because you know the software like no one else on this site, and I think even better than Ableton themselves, that you can afford yourself this attitude, either.

I think a software company's kinda greedy once you have to pay for analog when it eats up to 5 times as much cpu as a FREE subtractive synth that does the job equally, and when tension's interface is not user-friendly at all, also when you don't have standard surround support, when the user library is for boxed-versions only most of the time, when every single option will set you 129 Euro off, when the company charges you amounts for orchestral libraries while it's in the package @ the competition. And the list goes on and on.

For everything else, I think that Ableton Live is the best piece of software I have ever seen, honestly. Operator, Sampler, Simpler, Drum racks... Everything that's been developed @ Ableton HQ is GREAT. The marketing and commercial policies around do suck. BTW, MAX for Live should be integrated in the Suite, not a paying option.

As for hardware... welcome to the 21st century, welcome to 2009, while a huge and silent crisis has been hitting everyone's wallet for years before the media just spread the "news". The hardware synth era is over, and almost everything is free now. Not that I don't want to pay for the upgrade, I will, and I'll keep on using Live... but 149 is too much (and more if I want the new optional instruments). 99 is more than enough.

Ableton tend to forget that artist pockets are getting empty too, because we don't sell many downloads and it pays 5x less than cd or vinyl did. No artists with money, no one to buy Live... Don't underestimate this last point.
Dude, I was just mentioning the students as a light aside. I'd gladly be paid to show people the ups and downs of audio software.

Anyway, you lost me with most of your post. You say Max for Live should come with the suite. Let me rephrase that: You want 800$ worth of software to be tossed around for free?
I mean, how am I supposed to give you a decent argument if you start talking like this?

Nokatus
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Post by Nokatus » Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:53 pm

rarelyseen wrote:Bollocks! How can you have spent 2000 EUR? Ableton Suite costs 699 boxed. All previous upgrades were 99 EUR. There are 7 Live versions. You do the math.
I agree 2000 euros is quite a steep estimate :), but on the other hand you're quite rude only to deliver a revisionist history lesson, no? I mean, you talk like you know what the prices were, but it seems you don't. The Suite hasn't been around for long.

Live 4 was around 500 euros, that's when I jumped in. Everything else kind of trickled into their lineup before the Suite idea, at prices over 100 euros each: update to 5 was about 120/150 euros (download/boxed, the latter granting you the benefit of a printed manual), and then there was Operator which was on offer for 129 euros extra. I don't quite remember what the upgrade price was when Live 6 came about, around 100 euros most likely, but Sampler was 169 euros extra. By that time there was the Essential Instruments Collection, after that the Suite solution, and so on.

Now, sorry if I have misremembered some of the exact prices. The main point is, for someone who has bought all the stuff when it first came out (I haven't), it most definitely hasn't been "Suite for 699 and upgrades 99 a piece". Depending on the path you have taken, you could very well be hovering in the "between 1000 and 2000 euros" zone even if you started out at version 4. I'm somewhere around 1000 myself, owning licenses to nothing more than the basic Live application and Sampler.

Live is arguably the most expensive solution in its class. Then again, Live is in a class of its own, if you change the perspective somewhat. I use it because I think it has been money well spent :D, as this working environment really suits me like no other. That's no excuse to avoid objectively looking at the pricing and going "yeah, quite pricey, innit?" And certainly no excuse to rewrite history and insult someone while doing so.

Russell Krauch
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Post by Russell Krauch » Sat Feb 14, 2009 1:12 pm

Well I'm not upgrading because I don't have the cash. Simple as that. My paycheck has been cut by a third since November. I know I'm not the only one here in this boat. I'm wondering just how much stuff software companies in general are going to sell this year.

smutek
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Post by smutek » Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:49 pm

Russell Krauch wrote:Well I'm not upgrading because I don't have the cash. Simple as that. My paycheck has been cut by a third since November. I know I'm not the only one here in this boat. I'm wondering just how much stuff software companies in general are going to sell this year.
I'm kind of in the same boat. I've only just managed to upgrade from version 5 to version 7 a few months ago.

As far as Ableton 8 goes, as great as it looks and as much as I would like to have it I don't see myself upgrading either, unless something happens and I land some fantastic new job or something I simply don't have the money. I'm considering selling something I already own to buy an APC.

For me the truth is it gets tiring and expensive to pay out for these upgrades year after year.

So I understand where people are coming from when they say "ableton has to drop the price to compete". Unfortunately if that were true, if they really did need to drop the price, then we would have seen a price drop.

They don't drop the price because they don't have to. They add new stuff, they raise the price, and people are still going to buy it. As annoying as it was to read 6 O'clock crow go on about session view on every page he is right.

Also, remember we had these exact same discussions last year (or was it the year before?) when Logic Studio first came out with the low price point and Ableton did not budge on their pricing or modify their package because they did not have to.

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