Help me understand "grain delay"

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
disco judas
Posts: 324
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:24 am

Help me understand "grain delay"

Post by disco judas » Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:05 pm

Hi,

1st thing I want to know :
When I assign "grain delay" parameters to rack macros, could you please suggest alternative names for the parameters?
What is the closest correct term for this parameters?

2 thing I want to know is how spatialization is distributed inside the plugin, is every other grain just panned hard, or is it more going on?

3 what is the frequency parameter

4 what is the correlation between the frequency parameter and the spray parameter, and what is the correlation between the frequency parameter and the pitch parameter. I guess there is some clever stuff going on.



Cheers

ethios4
Posts: 5377
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:28 am

Post by ethios4 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:54 pm

RTFM p287-288
The Spray control adds random delay time changes. Low values smear the signal across
time, which adds noisiness to the sound. High Spray values completely break down the
structure of the source signal, introducing varying degrees of rhythmic chaos. This is the
recommended setting for anarchists.
The Random Pitch control adds random variations to each grain’s pitch. Low values create
a sort of mutant chorusing effect, while high values can make the original source pitch
completely unintelligible. This parameter can interact with the main Pitch control, thus
allowing degrees of stability and instability in a sound’s pitch structure.
The size and duration of each grain is a function of the Frequency parameter. The sound of
Pitch and Spray depends very much on this parameter.

zsazsa
Posts: 376
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:31 pm
Location: Deventer

Post by zsazsa » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:56 pm

I don't have a clue how it actually works but it does sound totally wicked over guitar.

disco judas
Posts: 324
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:24 am

Post by disco judas » Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:02 pm

Hi, ethios !

I have read this, thanks, motherfucker, but I was seeking further explanation,
as I think this is a bit vague.



Cheers

Lo-Fi Massahkah
Posts: 3604
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:57 pm
Location: The south east suburbs of Malmö, Sweden.

Post by Lo-Fi Massahkah » Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:04 pm

8O 8O 8O 8O 8O

.m

ethios4
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Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:28 am

Post by ethios4 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:56 pm

:lol: :lol: :D

Well, since you asked "What is the frequency parameter?" I figured you hadn't read the part of the manual that describes what the frequency parameter is - it controls grain size. Spray adds randomness to the delay time. I think of Spray as working in the same way as Flux in Texture warping, and Frequency the same as Grain Size in Texture. So Frequency affects Pitch in that it controls the size of the grains that are pitch-shifted by the Pitch parameter.

As for grain panning, I have no idea. I had never thought the grains were being panned, but maybe so.

I'm just kidding about the sassiness....I hope you can take a joke.

nbinder
Posts: 867
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:47 pm

Post by nbinder » Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:00 pm

disco judas wrote:I have read this, thanks, motherfucker
8O Wasn't disco about Love? (Like in every century... hippies, disco dancers, ravers...)

ethios4
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Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:28 am

Post by ethios4 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:25 pm

disco judas

optimistic
Posts: 110
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:59 am
Location: Belgium/Australia

Post by optimistic » Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:30 pm

^ :lol: :lol:

Strangest thread I've read for a while

disco judas
Posts: 324
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:24 am

Post by disco judas » Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:45 pm

ethios4 wrote::lol: :lol: :D

Well, since you asked "What is the frequency parameter?" I figured you hadn't read the part of the manual that describes what the frequency parameter is - it controls grain size. Spray adds randomness to the delay time. I think of Spray as working in the same way as Flux in Texture warping, and Frequency the same as Grain Size in Texture. So Frequency affects Pitch in that it controls the size of the grains that are pitch-shifted by the Pitch parameter.

As for grain panning, I have no idea. I had never thought the grains were being panned, but maybe so.

I'm just kidding about the sassiness....I hope you can take a joke.

Hey man, sorry! Was in urgent need for a tripple espresso or something, again sorry.

Since the parameter is called frequency, I thought it maybe was something with controlling grain rate, which in turn maybe controlled grain length.
I think in some programs with a set density/amount of voces the bigger rate will mean a smaller grain size.


Cheers



:)

Robert Henke
Posts: 1193
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 10:38 am
Location: Berlin

Post by Robert Henke » Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:55 pm

one single grain frequency oscillator drives for grains: two overlapping ones per audio channel. left and right channel are 90 degrees out of phase. at the beginning of each grain, pitch, random pitch and spray (position) is applied. there is no parameter for grain density. there is no panning going on, it just appears to be like this due to the 90 degrees out of phase realtionship between the left and right grains.

Grain Delay is a quite old effect, i think it was already included in Live 1. i always wanted to write a new version of it, with more features. maybe some day....

R.

thelike5
Posts: 2047
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2002 10:12 pm

Post by thelike5 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:00 pm

Robert Henke wrote:
Grain Delay is a quite old effect, i think it was already included in Live 1.

R.
Yes, it was... so was the Ping Pong Delay, which is my favorite effect.

ethios4
Posts: 5377
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:28 am

Post by ethios4 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:16 pm

disco judas wrote:Hey man, sorry! Was in urgent need for a tripple espresso or something, again sorry.
No worries! I was just being sarcastic and sassy....it comes across weird in text sometimes. Had me laughing for quite awhile actually.

prebentious
Posts: 312
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:07 am

Post by prebentious » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:26 am

Grain Delay is my favorite!
I would love an update!

Contra
Posts: 1263
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Location: Miami,FL. USA
Contact:

Post by Contra » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:30 am

ethios4 wrote:RTFM p287-288
The Spray control adds random delay time changes. Low values smear the signal across
time, which adds noisiness to the sound. High Spray values completely break down the
structure of the source signal, introducing varying degrees of rhythmic chaos. This is the
recommended setting for anarchists.
The Random Pitch control adds random variations to each grain’s pitch. Low values create
a sort of mutant chorusing effect, while high values can make the original source pitch
completely unintelligible. This parameter can interact with the main Pitch control, thus
allowing degrees of stability and instability in a sound’s pitch structure.
The size and duration of each grain is a function of the Frequency parameter. The sound of
Pitch and Spray depends very much on this parameter.

lol
is that like industry rule #4080? ;)

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