Do you prefere Live suite instruments or 3rd Party VST's?

swiffy · Post by **swiffy** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 2:29 pm

Do you like using the suite instruments or 3rd party VST's? I have never tried the suite instruments. I am debating on whether to buy Live Suite 8 or get Omnisphere or something else. Here's what I have- Reason 4-120 GB's of Refills, VST's-Komplete 5 (just got), albino 3, Gladiator, Firebird, Hypersonic II, sylenth 1, and others. For some reason I don't use reason 4 that much. Also, half the refills I have are horrible.

Can anyone recommend VST's that are not CPU hogs? I tried NI's massive demo a while back and man it takes up some CPU. Also, can omnisphere handle a quadcore PC, with 4 GB of RAM and 2.4 Ghz processing speed. With a 500 GB IHD.

condra · Post by **condra** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 2:48 pm

I think Operator is up there with the best of them, especially the latest version which is just mind blowing.

Analog is a great VA too IMO.

earsmack · Post by **earsmack** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:16 pm

CPU usage is my main gripe with VSTs. I'm primarily a hardware guy but when I need to I prefer to use the built-in instruments in Live. In fact, the only plugin I use regularly is Izotope Ozone 3. Otherwise I'm mostly VST-free. However, I do like Automat.

Willyum · Post by **Willyum** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:26 pm

There are VST's that have better sounds than in Live, but not so much better that it's worth the trade off of being seamless.

I prefer seamless and the new sound bank in Suite 8 just closed that gap a little more.

synnack · Post by **synnack** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:28 pm

I only use the Ableton plugins at this point. Not because they are the best, not because there aren't 100's of other great things out there (many free).

I do it to enforce a limitation on myself. From a guitarist point of view it is often said the best songs can be written on a guitar with one string. It forces you to stop thinking about "playing" and start thinking about the song.

For an electronic dork point of view, having 100 options for what synth and then 1000 options for what sound just sort of distracts me.

The way I am now in my old age, I'd prefer to have very few synths and master them well, than 100 that i barely keep track of. I mean literally I could spend hours before just going through libraries of bass sounds trying to find the best one for a particular part. Now I just spend the 20 minutes and make one!

So I chose to do that with the Ableton synths since they are integrated so well in the workflow of the product.

Also as mentioned, Operator rules.

stonee · Post by **stonee** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:34 pm

i haven't used much besides operator and analog and occasionally sampler.

testing out the new beta, for what I do, operator and sampler can probably satisfy all my needs.

the new operator is SICK

synnack · Post by **synnack** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:38 pm

New operator (and old one!) do totally rule.

Since I got good at making drum sounds with it, i haven't used a single drum sample since.

I continue to be totally disappointed by sampler though.

It has a few cool unique features but the fact that you can't even midi/macro map sample start (but can in simpler!) drives me crazy.

man ovaboardz · Post by **man ovaboardz** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:44 pm

from what i've been reading the last few days, it seems like the answer to the question is get operator, because everything else is average...right now i'm rockin' live, reason 4, and proteus vx, and a ensoniq asr-x.... i think thats enough for me for now...i am considering omnisphere, alchemy, or operator in the future... i looking to upgrade my monitoring chain for now to make what i use sound BETTER, instead of lookin' for gear to make me sound better...

andrewbrewer · Post by **andrewbrewer** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:55 pm

i have always liked the live synths & effects. more recently i have started using some vsts to add a different flavor.

i think the vsts i gravitate to are more specialized or basically gimmicky things, except sylenth which is a close match to analog, though i use both because they sound a little different.

i have always felt that the ableton suite has the range of bread and butter synthesis covered and then some.

the other vsts:
- d16 plugs phocyon/drumazon/nepheton
- synplant
- broken drum machine!

shai · Post by **shai** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:56 pm

i prefer Live's plugs first of all for their perfect integration. if i absolutely can not achieve it with Live, i go to Reaktor

glitchrock-buddha · Post by **glitchrock-buddha** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 3:58 pm

earsmack wrote:CPU usage is my main gripe with VSTs. I'm primarily a hardware guy but when I need to I prefer to use the built-in instruments in Live. In fact, the only plugin I use regularly is Izotope Ozone 3. Otherwise I'm mostly VST-free. However, I do like Automat.

Funny, this is my main gripe with the suite instruments. Most plug-ins I have beat the suite instruments on cpu.

For me, all the different suite instrument have different reasons for being valuable in addition to plug-ins.

Sampler - I like the simplicity of the interface. Though I have kontakt, which is more powerful, has a great library and great effects, I like sampler for it's integration in Live. And in this case, integration actually means something, because you can drag and drop samples from your set into. Makes for very easy multi-sampling

Operator - A very unique sounding FM synth and easy to program. I have FM8 which takes less cpu and sounds amazing, but I still like operator for it's layout and structure. I've actually contemplated setting up a template in FM8 for hardware control to mimic operators architecture.

All the rest - Great physical modeling sounds. Use a lot of cpu but the sounds are pretty good imo. Over all not much advantage to having them instead of their AAS counterparts, except that it's much cheaper to buy the suite than buy those separately.

contakt321 · Post by **contakt321** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 4:25 pm

andrewbrewer wrote:i have always liked the live synths & effects. more recently i have started using some vsts to add a different flavor.

This describes me as well. I have had Live Suite for a year and I continue to be amazed with the included instruments. I use Operator a ton and have just started getting into Analog.

I have recently added Free Alpha, FM8 and Massive to my arsenal and it's nice to have some different sounds. My newer stuff has been incorporating both and I like the variety of textures.

I will say - I use PureMagnetik Soundpacks a ton! I have a handful and inevitably at least one patch or manipulation of a patch makes it into every song. Can't sing their praises enough.

mholloway · Post by **mholloway** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:18 pm

In the past I'd say "VST's, all the way....." and while I'm sure I'll keep using the best of my VST's, I've been beta-testing live8 and I gotta say, the library is KILLER. they've made some crazy shit with the Instrument Racks, and the selection is huge......

and Operator new+old is definitely a big league synth AFAIC....

-M

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:36 pm

Depends on your needs. Any DAW bundled synths are not usually as good as 3rd party synths, but what you do get is pretty good overall, although, as glitchrock mentioned, curiously, given they are integrated, some of the Suite instruments are a bit heavy on the CPU side of things.

Operator is definately the stand out synth for me, that if Ableton released it as a VST, could sell well to users of other platforms. But with FM8, Blue, Sytrus, etc out there already, probably best not to waste resources and it's nice to have it to ourselves. The other stand out synth in terms of being great in it's field is Electric, which is an awesome EP vst and Tension is also nice, but it's actual stock sounds of strings and violins only sound convincing if you layer them with samples IMHO. With Live having Racks, this is easy to do, but again, CPU considerations come into it. Analog for me is not as strong a VA as other 3rd party VSTS, such as Sylenth, Massive, Zebra or Analog Factory etc, but it is usable and more so than freeware.

The Live Suite gives you a pretty wide palette. I haven't been as impressed yet as some others by the new 'world class content' although to be fair, they only included a smalll portion of it in the beta compared to what will come in the official release. I am liking Collision and Corpus too though, so far.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:36 pm

Live is my third DAW. I've switched twice before, and I sometimes sleep around with Logic to this day.

Embedded instruments do one thing that really sucks, they create a slash and burn situation where you have to choose to rarely if ever use that plug in if you switch for whatever reason. I miss Digital Performer's distortion, and filter FX, Logic's Sculpture and Convolution Reverb etc.
I paid to use them, but I want them in Live I have to jump through major hoops to get their sound, and theoretically Live's embedded instruments are setting me up for the same thing if I move on.

Most of Live's instruments are AAS plug ins, and have extra features in the non embedded versions. This is the one advantage, that in the future supposedly you could get a discount to buy the VST/AU version of Collision etc.

Anyway the main advantage IMO is that you can pick up the suite for dirt cheap compared to Komplete or Artura's bundle, and the bugs are certain to be worked out eventually, unlike third party plug ins.