workaround: send midi cc automation from timeline?

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Do you want to send midi cc automation from timeline?

Oh boy, yes!
3
50%
Yes!
1
17%
No, clip automation is enough!
2
33%
 
Total votes: 6

pre
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:04 pm

workaround: send midi cc automation from timeline?

Post by pre » Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:20 pm

Hi all, Ableton,

Ok, I heard lots of people complaining about this, but I couldn't find a really good solution for this problem:

Automation and control of Live-native handles (e.g. mixer, generators) and VST/AU controls is great. You can either use the clip automation AND/OR the timeline automation to animate parameters of these values. If you use both, they blend nicely.

Listen: For these controls you can use BOTH clip AND timeline automation, the former which can be looped and the latter that gives more the arrangement feeling.

Ok, now the problem:

For some reason you cannot do that for Midi CC, these are ONLY available in clip automation. Since it is possible for VST/AU controls (which is basically only a wrapper around a midi parameter architecture) I do not understand why Ableton decided to limit the CC control to clips.

It's a pity if you want to control external devices with Midi. It is ok for looped clips, but if you want to build an arrangement with a climax, you should be able to edit CC values at the same place as you do with all other values like volume, send, etc: in the timeline.

From a usability point of view that is just bad practice, and I hope that somebody at Ableton knows this. Besides that Live is a great package for me, but this really makes arranging pretty hard.


Ok, now after having complained and somehow accepted, that the new version
apparently did not address this issue, I am really looking for a workaround...

I have a setup with 2 Electribe ER-1 and 1 Electribe E-MX1. For the drum machines I actually would need NRPN (14-bit addressing, 7-bit values ) as well, but the five synth parts of the E-MX1 are just plain CC addressing.

What can I do? What are other people doing? I do not want to copy clip automation to the timeline, that's too much overhead and not intuitive.

How about a pluggo/pdvst plugin that sends VST automation to a dedicated Midi device and channel? Somebody did this?

Or using the python interface?

Or breaking into Ableton's HQ and silently add the missing 3 lines of code? :roll:

Best,
pre

Lo-Fi Massahkah
Posts: 3602
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:57 pm
Location: The south east suburbs of Malmö, Sweden.

Post by Lo-Fi Massahkah » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:20 pm

Sure. Why not?

But I really don't think it's much of a hassle to edit the clips themselves.

.m

Lo-Fi Massahkah
Posts: 3602
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:57 pm
Location: The south east suburbs of Malmö, Sweden.

Post by Lo-Fi Massahkah » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:21 pm

Welcome to the forums, though! :)

.m

pre
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:04 pm

Post by pre » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:22 pm

Hi Lo-Fi Massahkah,

Thanks for you reply.

Well, these are the downsides of using clip automation that come to my mind immediately:

1. Syncing to timeline or other clips
If you want to create an automation that aligns to another automation in a clip or on the timeline, you do not know exactly which timecode in the clip corresponds to the timeline timecode.

2. Using loops is a bit difficult as well, since the clip has to be as long as your automation... that messes the conceptual separation between "content" and automation.

3. You cannot use parameter lanes for clip automation, therefore you have much less overview

Are you also using external hardware?

Best,
pre

pre
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:04 pm

Post by pre » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:01 pm

Oh and one more thing,

You have to use overdubbing to re-record an automation from the external device. In the timeline view, this will create new clips each time which will clutter all around.

Best,
pre

bikerguy
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:13 am

Re: workaround: send midi cc automation from timeline?

Post by bikerguy » Sun May 05, 2019 5:50 pm

@pre,

Not sure if you are still looking for a solution, more than a decade later. From what I understand you are trying to write 7-bit or 14-bit MIDI automation from the timeline/arrangement view instead of having to dig into the clip view and lose context of all the other parameters that you are automating from the arrangement view. There are a couple of max for live midi device that you can use to automate 7-bit and 14-bit MIDI CC using a single knob. The 14-bit version allows for hi-res CC messages with 16384 different steps steps, while the 7-bit version goes from the traditional 0 to 127. With both, you don't have to go into clip view.

http://www.maxforlive.com/library/devic ... -cc-sender

http://www.maxforlive.com/library/devic ... -cc-sender

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