What do you do with a lazy, unreliable lead singer?

[Ball Sack]

This weeks "My best freind asked me out" thread

[sven303]

Does the deal with the label specifically involve this singer or could you include another singer.
It might give her a wake up call that your working with someone else.

I had a similar situation 10 years ago....the singer in my mates band was not contributing to the cause and my mate asked me to help out with songwriting and engineering but I ended up doing so many demos I became the lead singer. But for a while the original singer took the hint and at least tried to contribute more (but soon got back in to his old ways)

Good luck and keep us informed with what you end up doing

[mikemc]

You have to look at how much the singer adds to the project. Is her voice characteristic enough that she "makes the track"?

That lets you know whether or not she's worth saving.

If she is not, think about what happens if you get a new singer, you'll have to re-do what was already done, and yeh the contract structure would matter.

But if she is not 'hard wired' into the project contract and you think you could get someone to do as well that is motivated, and your current singer is not all that key to the sound, then you should move fast.

On the other hand, if she is a key aspect of the project, maybe cut back her involvement to suit her: is it her *singing* that is making things sound good, or her arranging, or both? Maybe she'd prefer to have someone else do the arranging, she just practice to some arrangements someone else puts together and then comes in and sings the parts-- be up front and ask her what will get her back into the passion for it, what aspect of it she likes most.

A singer that is not invested in the lyrics, or the songs, is kind of a losing proposition.

It is a crappy situation, because you are trying to put out your project but if this release goes well, then there is another, and do you have to go thru this again?

[vicz]

Well if she is the singer AND she writes the songs sounds like SHE is the band

[pilgrimomega]

Well if she is the singer AND she writes the songs sounds like SHE is the band

You must be a singer in a band.

LOL

[leedsquietman]

Hope you work it out. I have been in a situation with bands before where one or more members was messing it up for everyone else. When it's the singer that's the worst, because being the focal point of the band, the record company will surely be reluctant for you to replace her, unless you find another singer who is more talented and even better eye candy, and they don't grow on trees or we'd all be picking them off for our projects.

You reminded me why I like to work solo. I've been in bands where we've had fist fights and wrapped guitars and synth stands around someone's head because of ego and testosterone. I've been in bands where the singer got messed on drugs and alcohol to the point of being a shambling wreck and collapsing on stage with an OD. I've been in bands where someone just didn't show up on the most important gig or audition, because they couldn't be arsed any more. I've been in a band where a band member actually ran off with the groups PA system and gear on the day of a gig and was never seen again, totally screwing us over. There have been fights and splits over creative differences, money, religion, over whose round it was, over who cleans out the transit/econoline van or buys the fish and chips, etc. Yet, you still can't beat the dynamic of being in a great band when it's working well.

[FlightPlan]

If she's lazy and unreliable now, what's she gonna be like when you PROMOTE the record - will she want to rehearse and get things right, will she be willing to travel and hit a tough schedule? Right now you're focused on making the record,but if you don't tour, promote and market it, it won't matter how good it is - you won't have an audience, it'll be a vanity project.

Keep in mind that a lot of musicians really aren't ready for any kind of success - they flake out when things get heavy. By moving on and finding a partner you can trust and who shares your work ethic, you'll save yourself a lot of heartache later. Believe me, I've been there...

[Punky921]

If she's had a boyfriend for a meager four months and she's already flaking out as a result, that tells you something about her commitment to this project. I think a good, frank, honest, open (NON ANGRY) talk is in order. You've got to let her know how you're feeling, what you need from her, and what the band needs from her.

If she cannot provide those things, it might be time for her to go. If she was getting married - okay, I could see that. But four months? I've got cans of soup in my cabinet older than that.

[Tone Deft]

'stick her in the pooper' is the 'rtfm' for these threads.

you guys and your feelings.

[aqua_tek]

you guys and your feelings.

Fixed.

[Machinesworking]

What do you do with a lazy, unreliable lead singer?

Well you make a decision, you decide whether or not you want to deal with the drama, or deal with the possibility that you never work with her again.
Being in a committed band is pretty much exactly like being in relationship, in that you're forced to deal with the drama of another person. It's really about what you'll put up with, is the end result worth it etc.

Personally I would move on. I realized a while ago that I can only put up with so much. Me and the young girl I work with stopped working together for a couple years while she grew up etc. but I admit our circumstance is unique in that both of us have identical taste in music, but are vastly different in other ways to the point that neither were emotionally traumatized, no need for a therapy session to discuss our feelings like Metalica or some shit. She admitted she needed to FSU a bit before getting her act together, end of story.
Two other things, personally I don't deal well with lack of work ethic etc. (main reason I kicked her to the curb the first time) but I realize that I'm the type to put out more in a band, if you write all the music, then it's naturally going to be lop sided.

Anyway, maybe acknowledge the relationship isn't healthy, in that you probably wouldn't even question yourself about asking a male vocalist to man up and start being an active member of the band.

[mooncaine]

I think you need to have a polite, genuine, but frank conversation with her focused more on your goals, the need to finish, and how much you value the project and see if she is on the same page, if she isn't, you may need to replace her or start a new project.

I think honesty, and good faith communication is almost always the best technic.

Well said. That would be my approach.

[cubehog]

It´s time for an update

I am quite frank about it. I had 3 therapies (mental illness) and I am back on track. Kind of necro threading but it´s probably useful for someone else who is/was in the same situation.

I didn´t have drug problems or anything related to this just an overpowering need for some commendation. Finally I can finish my 2nd record. My product manager acted as a friend and supported this with patience and encouraging me to finish the project. The lead singer is on 5 tracks now. I invited other vocal talents to join the project and it will be a diverse record focussing on the songs themselves and to make it diverse (2 other male voices, 1 female and 2 songs I do the singing on)

I made the big mistake to assume my work will be appreciated at all. The thing in producing computer music is that the customer doesn´t know what I have to do. We made the decision to say "She sings, he does all the rest." Big, big mistake. To me as a producer the human voice is a monophonic instrument with a wide range of articulation and the most obvious connection to the customer. Kind of the ambassador to the music itself. When most people say "She sings so good" it is probably the music that lets them say this. I am not part of the "public equation". So you need at least some reassuring words from the person who gets the reward. If that´s not the case something is not right.

Maybe that´s the reason why Lamb and Moloko end up with records made by the lead singers and the magic on these records is gone. I can only speculate, but from my experience it is a masochistic thing to put most of the work into it and to provide a guarantee for a finished while you don´t get anything back because people don´t like to look deeper. If you don´t get any finacial reward it is hard to pull something positive out of it.

If the inner dynamics are not well in this setup and if there is no sense of appreciation of what you bring to table it is time to end business with this person. Don´t try to be nice or to sacrifice your human needs just for the other person to be happy. I tried to end my life but luckily enough I am still on earth and finally enjoy to make music again. It is still hard to lay hands on the "past songs" but they are good and worth to put some effort into it.

Nowadays I do the project on my own, setting the speed as I want to and make it a little more flexible and enjoyable.
I invite people to be part of this journey but I won´t rely on their input. And they appreciate to be part of it, that´s my reward and it feels very good, because I can share memories and they are documented as acoustic pieces.

I want to encourage to cooporate with other talents but I also want to warn about the traps that go along with it. That´s why I put this one up.

Enjoy making music, regardless of what people say. It´s a gift and when I sit in front of my setup time flies. I finally can be thankful for this fact alone. Hopefully it will translate in a lively muiscal output.

der Ivo

[john gordon]

Hi there,

I have a huge problem. My female vocalist and band member doesn´t do anything for our project anymore.
Which means our 2nd LP is probably not finished at the end of September ´09, as we´ve planned.

I´m responsible for the project and have to communicate with our record company.

The situation changed heavily 4 months prior to last saturday when she met her new boyfriend, who understandably is No.1 in her life right now. She tells me,
she feels the pressure I put upon her and she has a writer´s block. Of course I´m not able to ask for a prove, but I have the feeling she is making
this excuse to hide her lack of motivation in making music.

I am "blessed" with this workhorse mentality. So in one little catch phrase I do the work behind the voice, thorough and carefully crafted work as my friends tell me.
We both agree on the fact that without these edits and microthingies there wouldn´t be any depth and development in the songs. Ok, now that´s fine.

I´m scared to say to her that she needs to put more effort into our 2nd LP.
17 months have passed now and she delivered 3 nice vocal arrangements
and one half decent which I´ve edited to a decent one.

In her eyes she has done enough to push the project forwards. Given this workspeed of her continues at this low level we have the record done
in about 2011. It is likely to become worse.

How does she manage to neglect facts? Why does she have the guts to tell me that she has done enough work?

I don´t know what to do. I don´t want to destroy our friendship, because I love her deeply. But she also is a very lazy person with a low attention span
and she isn´t familiar with a decent work ethic. She herself admits it in aspects of the everyday life, but music is different to her. Hmm.

What would you guys do?

Kick her out the hard way.
Give her another chance, but it is likely she doesn´t change in a good way.
Let everything ride towards the bitter end and focus on something totally different.

Or, which I feel is the best way until now,

enjoy the songs and contributions she has made so far and ask other female singers to close the gap she isn´t able to fill.
It would mean she isn´t the lead singer anymore and is just one of a few female voices. And she has problems with that too.

Fuck, fuck, fuck. I shouldn´t have put so much trust in this person.

chances are you wont make it in the music industry anyways,so put your hard work into something else.. just saying...

[dude rancher]

you stand a better chance of winning the lottery than getting anywhere in music. buy a lotto ticket.