Is there a Phase Meter Plug-in for Live?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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mattstan
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Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:45 pm

Is there a Phase Meter Plug-in for Live?

Post by mattstan » Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:50 pm

I use live 6 and wanted to see if there is a phase meter plug in that someone would be able to recommend. Not sure if Live 7 has a phase meter with it or not.

Zygi
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Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:10 pm

Re: Is there a Phase Meter Plug-in for Live?

Post by Zygi » Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:56 pm

sadly - not

+1 for the request...

Nod
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Re: Is there a Phase Meter Plug-in for Live?

Post by Nod » Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:07 pm

mattstan wrote:I use live 6 and wanted to see if there is a phase meter plug in that someone would be able to recommend.
http://www.fluxhome.com/products/Freewa ... otool.html

hth

nbinder
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Re: Is there a Phase Meter Plug-in for Live?

Post by nbinder » Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:08 pm

Great tip!

onehandstand
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Re: Is there a Phase Meter Plug-in for Live?

Post by onehandstand » Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:51 pm

thanks nod :D

assessingaccess
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Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: Is there a Phase Meter Plug-in for Live?

Post by assessingaccess » Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:17 pm

Hello all,

Can anyone explain exactly what the heck i'm looking at when i pop one of these bad boys on a track?
What should i be looking for? How do i increase stereo spread with a phase analyzer?

Also, when checking a mono track for phase issues, what should i be looking for in the display?

FYI there was no manual for the phase meter on the flux site, thus the question!

Thanks
Stuffs.

7G
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Re: Is there a Phase Meter Plug-in for Live?

Post by 7G » Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:50 pm

assessingaccess wrote:How do i increase stereo spread with a phase analyzer?
Now my friend,that's one of the biggest secrets in mixing though i wouldn't recommend you any analyzers
for stereo spread...
It's all about the sound design and mixing so try to experiment there

My 2 cents :wink:

assessingaccess
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Location: Philadelphia, PA

Re: Is there a Phase Meter Plug-in for Live?

Post by assessingaccess » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:03 pm

7G wrote:
assessingaccess wrote:How do i increase stereo spread with a phase analyzer?
Now my friend,that's one of the biggest secrets in mixing though i wouldn't recommend you any analyzers
for stereo spread...
It's all about the sound design and mixing so try to experiment there

My 2 cents :wink:

I just don't know what the heck I'm looking at, that's all.
Stuffs.

Zygi
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:10 pm

Re: Is there a Phase Meter Plug-in for Live?

Post by Zygi » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:14 pm

Nod wrote:
mattstan wrote:I use live 6 and wanted to see if there is a phase meter plug in that someone would be able to recommend.
http://www.fluxhome.com/products/Freewa ... otool.html

hth
I love you man :twisted:

3dot...
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Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:10 pm

Re: Is there a Phase Meter Plug-in for Live?

Post by 3dot... » Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:28 pm

assessingaccess wrote:Hello all,

Can anyone explain exactly what the heck i'm looking at when i pop one of these bad boys on a track?
What should i be looking for? How do i increase stereo spread with a phase analyzer?

Also, when checking a mono track for phase issues, what should i be looking for in the display?

FYI there was no manual for the phase meter on the flux site, thus the question!

Thanks

+1
put an operator before it ...start with a simple mono sine...and see what you see...
then start to experiment...
I think analyzers help a lot when learning...and they're a great tool..
but I recommend you listen before you look...


phase is usually an issue with 2 audio sources... where some/all of source A's freqs 'collide' with some/all of source B's freqs...
(ex:it could be more than 1 mic recording an audio source and not spaced far enough from each other
/ a mic near a reflective surface where the audio signal bounces off the glass back to the mic slightly delayed from the main signal .
/ a sound of the pick on a string on a guitar track taking up the some freqs from the Percussion track
)
this causes said freqs volume to get raised/decrease/canceled uncontrollably

if already recorded...there's not much you can do to get rid of it...
only try and cover it up...or mute affected freqs (almost always impossible)
when mixing several tracks to stereo or recording more than 1 mic...
is the time to take care of phase issues and it's good to train you EARS to pick up when there's phasing.
and some background about the physical aspect of audio is needed..
also..how to effectively use eqs/compressors/expanders/a mixer
Image

Nod
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Re: Is there a Phase Meter Plug-in for Live?

Post by Nod » Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:03 pm

assessingaccess wrote:Can anyone explain exactly what the heck i'm looking at when i pop one of these bad boys on a track?
(In addition to 3dot's excellent examples above) - don't head straight for, in terms of phase measurement, the big circular dowhatsit/goniometer unless you know how to read one. Look underneath for the actual correlation meter in simpler form. Basically put it's telling you if two channels sum together to be exactly identical mono (+1), uniquely different stereo = 0, or exactly opposite polarity inverted mono (-1). If your mix, or audio file, tends toward the -1 value then you've likely got some issues. However it doesn't tell you much about actual problematic frequency content, except that if the overall sum reads somewhere between 0 and -1 then the signals must be cancelling each other out at some frequencies (if not all), but you'll need a better measurement tool to find out where.
What should i be looking for? How do i increase stereo spread with a phase analyzer?
You wouldn't normally on such a tool but the Flux has a 'width' control you can adjust - another option is M/S processing (personally I find it far more useful than just a simple 'widener').
Also, when checking a mono track for phase issues, what should i be looking for in the display?
If it's purely mono then, iirc so someone correct me if wrong, your dealing with polarity rather than phase. If however it's a stereo file that's been folded down to mono then there could be issues as the waveforms cancel out at certain points and frequencies - again check the meters with the figures quoted above. By all means have some funky drops whizzing round the speakers on your entire mix that occasionally hit -1 as a freak occurrence but, on the main, you want to be sitting pretty between 0 or 1. To be honest the whole issue is, as 3dot outlined, something that is primarily a concern when recording/mixing acoustically with mics - examples would be wanting to lock the phases of overhead mics or blending different source mics on a guitar cab. However that's not to say that, imho, some grounding in old skool theory isn't useful or applicable in a modern DAW world - use your ears and not the screen for starters 8)

Nod
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Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 4:18 pm

Re: Is there a Phase Meter Plug-in for Live?

Post by Nod » Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:10 pm

Zygi wrote:I love you man :twisted:
No probs mate. If you liked that recommendation check out the other freebie Flux as well: a rather nice transient designer to give yer beats more attack or smooth 'em out - useful either side of a comp and beats paying for an SPL hardware box any day...8)

Zygi
Posts: 356
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:10 pm

Re: Is there a Phase Meter Plug-in for Live?

Post by Zygi » Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:25 pm

freebies do rock <3 (btw check out puremagnetiks free live packs)

i also have waves PAZ, but im trying to get rid of warez :twisted:

Btw, when should I worry? Everything seems ok when i don't have bass or kick enabled, but when I enable the tracks, everything comes close to mono... You'll probably say - use your ears? ;)

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