Theory: Modes and usage

[Aequitas123]

Perhaps i'm missing something, but i just don't get how Modes can be actually utilized.

For example, Dorian is a sweet sounding mode. But D Dorian is just a C Major scale. So, when performing or composing, what would make one Key D Dorian and the other C Maj?

[Angstrom]

well, I'm no great expert on theory, but ...

AFAIK, these are two overlapping systems, that's why it seems odd. So, (for that chord) it's a bit like saying "what's the difference between the words 'alike' and 'similar' ". In terms of meaning - not much, but in terms of origin, one came from Greece and the other from Italy.

kinda

it's a bit of a long (but interesting) history lesson how these two came to live together, the development of the twelve tone keyboard was the turning point for us in 'the west'

[UKRuss]

Modes are really a contextual thing. What you are trying to do is trick the listeners ear into hearing a different note as the tonic, or I.

Say for example you play your C major scale over a cmajor chord or a bassist playing a c note. it will sound C major, no question.

but now play your C major scale melody over a Dmin chord or a D note in the bass, over a long enough period of time the listeners ear is tricke into believing that D is now the tonic and your scale is an altered D minor scale, known as D Dorian. Accentuate the Dorian flavour notes, i.e. the notes that make it different to the regular D minor scale and make sure you resolve correctly to D and not C.

Voila, D Dorian tonality.

Now shift the bass note to F or an Fmaj7 chord and play your C major scale notes, F Lydian. Accentuate the fourth note in the scale as it is a sharp four as opposed to the normal fourth as played in the major scale. Voila F Lydian tonality.

Lydian is nice becasue you can shift the fourth down a semi tone to get back to normal major scale, or accentuate it as the sharp fourth for Lydian toniality.

Always record a backing vamp to play over or have another player play the 'new tonic' and you'll hear the modal tonality shine through.

[UKRuss]

Just thinking further...

Dorian mode is popular because it is easily blended with natural minor and pentatonic minor scales, a la Santana.

You can blast off some pent chops and then drop into some Santaesque dorian chops and some 3nps natural minor (or harmonic minor) patterns and chops, s'nice.

To practice hearing the mode try this:

Record a C major chord that repeats and sustains over say four bars.

now over those four bars play CDEFGABC, C major scale. You 'Hear" C as your tonic.

Now repeat the exercise over a Dmin chord doing exactly the same over four bars but now play the C major scale starting on D, D Dorian:
DEFGABCD.

Hear that minor Dorian tonality now?

[fluidino]

Same notes but beginning and ending on D is a different scale - (TSTTTST) not (TTSTTTS).
The difference is the tonal centre - D.

[Angstrom]

Same notes but beginning and ending on D is a different scale - (TSTTTST) not (TTSTTTS).
The difference is the tonal centre - D.

10 points for shortest answer

[UKRuss]

[Angstrom]

I think you gave the best answer for the question "what are some interesting ways to use modes?", rather than the actual question.

I have no idea what the hell question I was answering !

[fluidino]

just the limits of my knowledge
i get a nosebleed when using modes against anything but a drone

[jimmynitcher]

You mean a single note?

Modal scales can be used to form chords, much more interesting.

[Aequitas123]

Same notes but beginning and ending on D is a different scale - (TSTTTST) not (TTSTTTS).
The difference is the tonal centre - D.

I find this logic to be slightly flawed as, in practice, this would only be true if you were playing a scale.

[Aequitas123]

Modes are really a contextual thing. What you are trying to do is trick the listeners ear into hearing a different note as the tonic, or I.

Say for example you play your C major scale over a cmajor chord or a bassist playing a c note. it will sound C major, no question.

but now play your C major scale melody over a Dmin chord or a D note in the bass, over a long enough period of time the listeners ear is tricke into believing that D is now the tonic and your scale is an altered D minor scale, known as D Dorian. Accentuate the Dorian flavour notes, i.e. the notes that make it different to the regular D minor scale and make sure you resolve correctly to D and not C.

Voila, D Dorian tonality.

Now shift the bass note to F or an Fmaj7 chord and play your C major scale notes, F Lydian. Accentuate the fourth note in the scale as it is a sharp four as opposed to the normal fourth as played in the major scale. Voila F Lydian tonality.

Lydian is nice becasue you can shift the fourth down a semi tone to get back to normal major scale, or accentuate it as the sharp fourth for Lydian toniality.

Always record a backing vamp to play over or have another player play the 'new tonic' and you'll hear the modal tonality shine through.

Thanks for the input. This is what i thought was the answer.

[Aequitas123]

Modal scales can be used to form chords, much more interesting.

Yeah that is interesting!

[UKRuss]

Not sure that is as interesting as it sounds...

The chords that are made through stacked thirds of a modal scale are the same as those that appear in the parent major scale just in a different order...

C major

Cmaj7 Dmin7 Emin7 Fmaj7 G7 Amin7 Bmin7b5

D Dorian

Dmin7 Emin7 Fmaj7 G7 Amin7 Bbmin7b5 Cmaj7

Although as soon as you start to use those chords beyond a vamp or drone, they just sound like the key of Cmajor.

Now harmonising the harmonic minor scale is interesting. well. relatively...in a jazzy sort of way.

[beatpoet]

Perhaps i'm missing something, but i just don't get how Modes can be actually utilized.

For example, Dorian is a sweet sounding mode. But D Dorian is just a C Major scale. So, when performing or composing, what would make one Key D Dorian and the other C Maj?

Lets say you have a hook riff written using the notes in the D dorian/C Major scale for the start of a track with a underlying tonal center of D, i.e. a baseline or chord progression that comes back to that tonal center as it's 'home' note. If you are using chords to back it, you'll need to know what chords are in the harmonic scale also. So the start of this track is in D dorian.


Lets say you want to lift the track in a chorus type section and change the mood, you can change the underlying tonal center to C still keep your hook riff untouched but you're now in C Major so the track has a different feel. It's now in C major.


Modes just mean you can keep the same melodic parts and change the underlying harmony, to produce different keys and moods, if you want to play by the rules that is.

Once you know what you are doing you can loose the plot altogether