Lets talk about hats baby, lets talk about you and me

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
timothyallan
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Lets talk about hats baby, lets talk about you and me

Post by timothyallan » Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:08 am

My hi hats are too pokey and stick out of the mix more in this track I'm working on. Any tips to help them blend with the rest of the drums?

I could choose new samples but I want to do this the hard way. I've tried:

a. EQ - makes it sound eq'd and a bit blah
b. Compressed with the drums - makes them stick out even more
c. Soften the attack - lost their oomph
d. Added reverb - still stuck out, but now had some reverb on them

Any suggestions?

UKRuss
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Re: Lets talk about hats baby, lets talk about you and me

Post by UKRuss » Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:00 pm

Just turn them down.

:D

timothyallan
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Re: Lets talk about hats baby, lets talk about you and me

Post by timothyallan » Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:12 pm

lol

e. Turn them down - can't find a happy volume spot.


Sigh, I'm going to use a new smaple.

UKRuss
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Re: Lets talk about hats baby, lets talk about you and me

Post by UKRuss » Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:18 pm

yeah, it sounds like the ol' SISO principal. If the hat don't fit and all that...

Machinate
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Re: Lets talk about hats baby, lets talk about you and me

Post by Machinate » Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:09 pm

definitely the first thing to consider is: "is this the right sample?"

aizo
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Re: Lets talk about hats baby, lets talk about you and me

Post by aizo » Sun Mar 29, 2009 2:51 pm

that's why I don't use them

edit: post a sample up of whatcha got and maybe it might be a little easier to help out
ImageImage

leedsquietman
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Re: Lets talk about hats baby, lets talk about you and me

Post by leedsquietman » Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:37 pm

One trick master mixer Bruce Swedien *mixed Michael Jackson's Thriller and many other grammy winning albums* uses to help with hats was to pan them in mono and usually there is one really present spot where it really sticks out and cuts through the mix, sometimes even a tiny sliver of an adjustment makes all the difference. Sometimes a de-esser can work quite well on hats too. But as stated before, there are times when no amount of processing will get it right and replacing the sound ends up being the only option.
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slirak
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Re: Lets talk about hats baby, lets talk about you and me

Post by slirak » Sun Mar 29, 2009 3:48 pm

...or you could wait for L8 (which will probably arrive in a week or so given that we're on RC2) and use that über-cool new multiband compressor to zoom in on the offender... 8)

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Re: Lets talk about hats baby, lets talk about you and me

Post by leedsquietman » Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:35 pm

Compression is not usually a way to fix hats, or anything bad in a mix (unless they are overly transient rich and vary wildly dynamically, which is quite rare). Compression is used more as a FX to obtain a certain type of sound. EQing is usually more appropriate for fixing this type of problem, but given that he's done that to no avail, other options were mentioned, but it's likely that replacing the sound will be the quickest way.

Multiband compression is something to try and avoid in general, try and use regular compression and good mixing and EQing and there should be very little need for it, except, again, for creating a very specific sound as an effect. The limiter is a more useful tool in Live 8 for general everyday usage.
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slirak
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Re: Lets talk about hats baby, lets talk about you and me

Post by slirak » Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:22 pm

leedsquietman wrote:Compression is not usually a way to fix hats, or anything bad in a mix (unless they are overly transient rich and vary wildly dynamically, which is quite rare). Compression is used more as a FX to obtain a certain type of sound. EQing is usually more appropriate for fixing this type of problem, but given that he's done that to no avail, other options were mentioned, but it's likely that replacing the sound will be the quickest way.

Multiband compression is something to try and avoid in general, try and use regular compression and good mixing and EQing and there should be very little need for it, except, again, for creating a very specific sound as an effect. The limiter is a more useful tool in Live 8 for general everyday usage.
Uh, maybe I was jumping to conclusions but I figured the OP was working with a sampled loop and thus had no means to work with the mix or change the hi-hat sample. Multiband compression can be a great tool when you're working with drum loops and find that a single sound needs boosting or damping. Since L8's multiband compressor is also an expander, it's really well suited for such use.

Otherwise I certainly agree that changing the sample would be a good idea. Though I must say I disagree that (non-multiband) compression couldn't be a way to 'fix hats', on the contrary. I find common issues with hi-hats are too much or too little attack, or that a certain frequency gets annoying when the drummer goes a bit wild. A compressor, possibly EQ-sidechained, can be put to good use in such cases.

EDIT:
I was obviously jumping to conclusions, instead of reading the post... Nevermind the multiband tip. Still very useful with drum loops though.

leedsquietman
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Re: Lets talk about hats baby, lets talk about you and me

Post by leedsquietman » Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:58 pm

Actually in a loop situation a multiband is more suited as you can manipulate the kick drum, mid rangey snare and hats differently.

I was talking more for one shots, or single sounds, as I don't work with loops very often, using drum racks, or multiple audio tracks typically.
Last edited by leedsquietman on Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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drumrak
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Re: Lets talk about hats baby, lets talk about you and me

Post by drumrak » Sun Mar 29, 2009 5:59 pm

put some redux on it, everyone try this if you havnt. this could be considered "a secret weapon"

sunrahrahrah
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Re: Lets talk about hats baby, lets talk about you and me

Post by sunrahrahrah » Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:14 pm

my gf and i hate hats. she prefers to ride when i am not using hats. she also likes rimshots and stick at the right times.

Grappadura
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Re: Lets talk about hats baby, lets talk about you and me

Post by Grappadura » Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:15 pm

pitch, pitch envelope and erosion are other options
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timothyallan
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Re: Lets talk about hats baby, lets talk about you and me

Post by timothyallan » Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:34 pm

sunrahrahrah wrote:my gf and i hate hats. she prefers to ride when i am not using hats. she also likes rimshots and stick at the right times.
:lol: Best comment of the thread.


Thanks guys, all valuable. Yeah, the hats are all single shots. Loops are for daft punk ;)

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