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Re: Price of Upgrade to Live 8

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:03 pm
by chalkline
Not sure why, but I am being offered it for euros 79 boxed version, I just double checked it with my work account and you are right it is going for 179.
I added it to my shopping cart and still 79, well pay day next week!

Re: Price of Upgrade to Live 8

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:19 pm
by Mike Goodwin
twisted-space wrote:
Mike Goodwin wrote:Ok so what are these coupons for line time users? Where do I get one? How long does it take. Any info on this mysterious topic?
http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... +statement
Thanks. email sent.

Re: Price of Upgrade to Live 8

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:45 pm
by leedsquietman
The coupon does not apply for educational versions. Sucks. Doing away with discounted educational upgrades is a mistake.

The fact is, this upgrade is expensive and is more expensive than upgrades to Logic, Sonar, Cubase, pro tools.

The Suite is now about 350 dollars more than Logic (and don't talk about the SUite goodies up against the gazillion synths and high grade FX in Logic), and now 300 dollars more than Cubase 5 (which has had a massive change and way more Suite like content added in this upgrade) and Sonar 8PE. All of these DAWS have as much content in them as the Live Suite.

The fact that I can upgrade my copy of Cubase SX3 to Cubase 5 (which is TWO generations as opposed to only ONE generation in Live) for less money rankles with me a lot.

Yes, there's lots of new features. Well there was LOTS of new features in Cubase 5 over Cubase 4, in Logic Studio 8 over Logic Pro 7 and PTLE8 over PTLE7 too. The simple fact is, small company or not, Ableton are really taking a chance with their pricing, which is to me, not even debatable, that's it;s overpriced in it's market. And I LOVE the Abes and couldn't live without Live, but it's not right to exploit people in these harsh economic times. Steinberg, the most arrogant company in the world, have even woke up and smelt the coffee and slashed their prices dramatically, Ableton are the ONLY ones increasing prices .....

Re: Price of Upgrade to Live 8

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:25 pm
by db2
After spending as much as I did to buy Live 7 Suite and finding out how limited the library is in many respects, and now being asked to pay the price difference up to dbl what the logic suite would be for a massively useful library(Logics's lib), and then pay for the upcoming max_for_live set, shit man, we're getting into the teens for ableton live fully functioning, I'd say its getting pretty ridiculous compared to their competitors.

Re: Price of Upgrade to Live 8

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:29 pm
by db2
db2 wrote:After spending as much as I did to buy Live 7 Suite and finding out how limited the library is in many respects, and now being asked to x what the logic suite would be for a massively useful library(Logics's lib), and then pay for the upcoming max_for_live set, shit man, we're getting into the teens for ableton live fully functioning, I'd say its getting pretty ridiculous compared to their competitors.
p4ay the price difference up to dbl

Im not trying to be a socialist, I'm just sayin, logics libraries are arguably the best on the market and come in 10X strength to a lot of competitors for $499 all in. I bet Im looking at $1500 before Im done from getting started at live 7 and including suite + max.

Re: Price of Upgrade to Live 8

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:40 pm
by Mike Goodwin
db2 wrote:After spending as much as I did to buy Live 7 Suite and finding out how limited the library is in many respects, and now being asked to pay the price difference up to dbl what the logic suite would be for a massively useful library(Logics's lib), and then pay for the upcoming max_for_live set, shit man, we're getting into the teens for ableton live fully functioning, I'd say its getting pretty ridiculous compared to their competitors.
Live is no longer competing price wise. Live suit with MAX I'm not sure but that would get to about $1200? logic is $500? Different yes but there is no production DAW that offers as much as logic. I am not talking about Pro Tools HD here. I put that under the recording side of things.

Re: Price of Upgrade to Live 8

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:51 pm
by IP
about the edu upgrades cancellation thing...

from live 7 edu to live 8 (not edu) will the 8 be still marked as 'edu' or after the upgrade it goes normal?
I mean after updating to 8 it can be sold to anybody? Even if he is not a student?

Re: Price of Upgrade to Live 8

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:31 pm
by mock
Mike Goodwin wrote: Live is no longer competing price wise. Live suit with MAX I'm not sure but that would get to about $1200? logic is $500? Different yes but there is no production DAW that offers as much as logic. I am not talking about Pro Tools HD here. I put that under the recording side of things.
I'm not really sure where that 1200 figure is coming from. However when comparing Logic to Live, you need to keep in mind that Logic is developped by Apple for Macs only. What this means is that they can leverage the Mac only technologies to ease up many of the tasks (they can basically rely on the cocoa+CoreAudio+QT toolkit which are extremely powerful). Furthermore Logic's team probably has access to source code and undocumented features of the various frameworks they use. All that means a lot less hassle than producing an app that runs on 2 OS with a wide variety of audio and midi drivers. And then there's also the future M4L, which also means (if it holds its promises) that they had to come up with solutions for the gaps that may exist - design wise - between those two technologies.

Plus Logic doesn't support VST's and check the beta bugs to see how much work went into supporting third party's vsts AND AU.

Now deciding whether Live is overpriced is up to you, but let's not compare extremely complex systems as if there was nothing more to them than price. Complex systems mean trade-offs, pricing may be one of the components of those.

Finally, if you were to upgrade from 7 suite DL to 8 suite DL, it meant saving less than 4 bucks a day since the announcement. Again, the sacrifices it might imply is up to you, but still.

Re: Price of Upgrade to Live 8

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:41 pm
by leedsquietman
Let's compare then another cross platform program - Cubase. PC and Mac OSX, always has been.

Update Cubase SX3 to Cubase 5 - 199 dollars US - this is not one but TWO generations.
Update Live 7 Suite DL to Live 8 Suite DL - 229 dollars (one generation).

Cubase 5 offers pretty much the same features, lots of synths and plugins and the like as Logic Studio 8.
It now has a convolution reverb and melodyne style pitch correction (better than Logic's pitch correction) which were big advantages for Logic.

It also has a ton of material based upon Yamaha's Motif synth range in a similar vein to Apple loops and a drum machine that is comparable to Ultrabeat. (it doesn't offer the dedicated audio editor but the sample editor in Cubase is very powerful anyway).

Retail prices - Cubase 5 - 499 dollars. Ableton Live Suite 8 - 799 dollars.

Whatever extra creative aspects and advantages Live has, it is OVERPRICED against the competitive DAW market. Simple as. End of.
This is not even bringing Sonar into the equation, or protools 8 le/m-powered.

Additionally, Cubase upgrades are only every 2-3 years (as are Logic's), and they offer increased functionality for free in updates in between - for example, Cubase 4.1 added over 50 features, including major stuff like sidechaining, and it cost nothing for Cubase 4 owners, nor did the Vista 64 bit upgrades to 4.5.2

Live is awesome. Ableton are a good company and customer friendly. But it might do the company some good if people did take a stand and not rush into upgrading, because their pricing is too high and needs a revision.

Re: Price of Upgrade to Live 8

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:00 pm
by mock
leedsquietman wrote:Let's compare then another cross platform program - Cubase. PC and Mac OSX, always has been.

Update Cubase SX3 to Cubase 5 - 199 dollars US - this is not one but TWO generations.
Update Live 7 Suite DL to Live 8 Suite DL - 229 dollars (one generation).

Cubase 5 offers pretty much the same features, lots of synths and plugins and the like as Logic Studio 8.
It now has a convolution reverb and melodyne style pitch correction (better than Logic's pitch correction) which were big advantages for Logic.

It also has a ton of material based upon Yamaha's Motif synth range in a similar vein to Apple loops and a drum machine that is comparable to Ultrabeat. (it doesn't offer the dedicated audio editor but the sample editor in Cubase is very powerful anyway).

Retail prices - Cubase 5 - 499 dollars. Ableton Live Suite 8 - 799 dollars.

Whatever extra creative aspects and advantages Live has, it is OVERPRICED against the competitive DAW market. Simple as. End of.
This is not even bringing Sonar into the equation, or protools 8 le/m-powered.

Additionally, Cubase upgrades are only every 2-3 years (as are Logic's), and they offer increased functionality for free in updates in between - for example, Cubase 4.1 added over 50 features, including major stuff like sidechaining, and it cost nothing for Cubase 4 owners, nor did the Vista 64 bit upgrades to 4.5.2

Live is awesome. Ableton are a good company and customer friendly. But it might do the company some good if people did take a stand and not rush into upgrading, because their pricing is too high and needs a revision.
Understand that my point was not to assess whether the upgrade was overpriced (I upgraded, and knew I would do so from the announcement, so I provisionned the necessary amoun of money on a separate account and did not tap into it even when it meant skipping a good meal - but that's only me). My point was that when comparing complex systems, one should not jump to conclusions based solely on the price tag and overall specs.

As for Cubase I haven't used it since I've stopped using cracked software almost ten years ago. But vsts' specs are up to steinberg, and AFAIK there's no support for AU. And I'm not a fan of Cubase's workflow (as I remember it). Again trade-offs.

Re: Price of Upgrade to Live 8

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:14 pm
by leedsquietman
There's trade-offs both ways.

Live is the more creative and inspirational composition and arranging environment.

Cubase is the better laid out mixing environment, runs much lower CPU and has great dual monitor support with arrangement and mixing screens or plugins viewable on 2 seperate screens which is great for mixdown workflow with track heavy projects. Most plugins have VST and AU support these days, AU support is more crucial to Logic as it does not support VST.


I have become a huge fan of Live, I am just disappointed in the dropping of discounts for educational users upgrades, and the increased pricing.
And this is an annual thing. I am most likely going to upgrade because I've beta tested 8 and like the new features and workflow enhancements.

I just think that Ableton need to know that there is a core of users who are discontented about the price and that eventually, if they don't listen,
this could bite them in the ass somewhere down the line. I speak only in glowing terms about Ableton support, (awesome), and the creativity of Live.

Re: Price of Upgrade to Live 8

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:19 pm
by iceaxe
$189 for Live 8 upgrade... verses
$149 for ProTools 8 upgrade...


Apples and oranges. Different programs that do different things. Live is better for live performance/composing; ProTools software is a little better for live recording/mixing/mastering. Don't mistake ProTools software for a professional digital recording studio. For that you need several pieces of Digi/Avid's $10,000 hardware.

Live has way more functionality overall, i.e. bang for your buck. I have both -- don't use ProTools anymore. And now I don't need to stockpile 3-year-old computer hardware to run the 'latest' release of...everything Avid makes. I don't have that facial tic anymore, either, when I hear the words "compatibility matrix."

Oh, and everyone I know who's experienced what Avid calls 'support' (me included), would gladly pay 40 bucks to never interact with any of those d-bags ever again. Ableton's support is stellar.

Re: Price of Upgrade to Live 8

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:30 pm
by DanMan
4ace wrote:
Mike Goodwin wrote:Was looking forward to buying this tonight but it looks like that price is holding me off. That is a lot of cash for an upgrade. The program costs $500 bucks. $190 for the upgrade? I hate to say that for the first time I am pissed off about the price of an upgrade for Live.
I feel the same way Mike.

I emailed the abes for those coupons that were sent out to long time users a while back. YEAH the one I NEVER GOT!

Been on-board since ver. 4!!!


Even WITH the coupon this is an expensive upgrade :cry:
Ive been a user from Live 1 -> Live 5 .... and I agree things are getting pricey. Im glad that I'm not the only one that feels this way. Speaking of this, I had a friend at work that was looking at live. He has a DJ background. He ended up getting Logic. Said Live was "too expensive".

Re: Price of Upgrade to Live 8

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:46 pm
by ttaralli
Not upgrading at the price - Sorry Ableton, I was looking forward to 8 but I could get a lot more things I want/need for that money.

Re: Price of Upgrade to Live 8

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:55 pm
by D K
i paid it,
however i think it was overpriced...
the coupon helped.
been a user since live 3.
as basically a long time user (not as long as many, obviously)
i look at how much i've spent supporting the software and options over the
whole course of my ownership.... this is what makes it feel overpriced for me.
the looper was a must have, can't believe it took this long to get something so simple in a program designed for performance.
grateful to not have to go third party or hardware for that now...