Price of Upgrade to Live 8

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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Re: Price of Upgrade to Live 8

Post by dcease » Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:38 pm


Mike Goodwin
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Re: Price of Upgrade to Live 8

Post by Mike Goodwin » Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:47 pm

mock wrote:
Mike Goodwin wrote: Live is no longer competing price wise. Live suit with MAX I'm not sure but that would get to about $1200? logic is $500? Different yes but there is no production DAW that offers as much as logic. I am not talking about Pro Tools HD here. I put that under the recording side of things.
I'm not really sure where that 1200 figure is coming from. However when comparing Logic to Live, you need to keep in mind that Logic is developped by Apple for Macs only. What this means is that they can leverage the Mac only technologies to ease up many of the tasks (they can basically rely on the cocoa+CoreAudio+QT toolkit which are extremely powerful). Furthermore Logic's team probably has access to source code and undocumented features of the various frameworks they use. All that means a lot less hassle than producing an app that runs on 2 OS with a wide variety of audio and midi drivers. And then there's also the future M4L, which also means (if it holds its promises) that they had to come up with solutions for the gaps that may exist - design wise - between those two technologies.

Plus Logic doesn't support VST's and check the beta bugs to see how much work went into supporting third party's vsts AND AU.

Now deciding whether Live is overpriced is up to you, but let's not compare extremely complex systems as if there was nothing more to them than price. Complex systems mean trade-offs, pricing may be one of the components of those.

Finally, if you were to upgrade from 7 suite DL to 8 suite DL, it meant saving less than 4 bucks a day since the announcement. Again, the sacrifices it might imply is up to you, but still.
The $1200 is a guess because I do not feel like looking up the price for MAX for Live. Suit is $700 and I thought Max was around $500. I could be wrong.

I wrote this big ass post and in the middle of it my videocard overheated and my computer crashed. In the end all I am saying is that I don't care about the reasoning and the all the unknowns. Or weather or not Ableton is lining there pockets or just scraping buy. It is nothing personal with me. Sure the price pissed me off. I'm over it. It took one day. Nothing takes away that Live is the most expensive of all the mainstream DAW's now. It is not a debate. They are not keeping with the general market value. The only systems that are more expensive that I now of are Nuendo, Sequoia and Pyramix. All of wich offer totaly differnt things but are more complex than live. Again I am not talking about Pro Tools HD because I do not see it as a good production tool. It is a fantasting recording platform.

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Re: Price of Upgrade to Live 8

Post by mock » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:05 am

Well M4L pricing info have not been released yet. And the full Max/MSP/Jitter combo is $700. Again my point was not to assess Live's price (the upgrade is obviously fine for me since I've upgraded). Now Live Suite is good on its own, and since you claim that you don't want to speculate or guess, then why do you include M4L? I own Max/MSP/Jitter and can tell you that this is a whole different world. And if M4L is what they claim it'll be, then the flexibility of the combo will be unparalelled.

BUT you won't need it, as you don't need 3rd parties' Livepacks or plugins. But, if you do get it, even if you just fiddle a bit with other's devices you'll learn loads about DSP (since Max, actually MSP, comes with the best documentation I've seen -I haven't tried NI's reaktor though) which will ultimately help you harness the power of other plugins/devices.

Mike Goodwin
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Re: Price of Upgrade to Live 8

Post by Mike Goodwin » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:32 am

Your right I did contradict myself. Again I am not debating anything at this point. Live is simply the most expensive common place daw. I will buy it. I am committed to the program. One thing I am curious about is what the upgrade price will be for 9. If they are using the reasoning that this was a big upgrade the price ought to return to the $125 or so it was before.

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Re: Price of Upgrade to Live 8

Post by 4ace » Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:09 am

DAMN this thread got legs QUICK!

Grumble Grumble.... Cost Too Much!

I haven't read all 5 pages But just thought i'd give a good bump and let the "man" know how some of us feel!
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Re: Price of Upgrade to Live 8

Post by nuperspective » Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:22 am

it cost me $288.90 USD to upgrade from Live 7 suite [download] to Live 8 [boxed]. as i wanted the manual and the EIC2 etc and i have been a user since version 3.

thats a lot of cash - thats a long way to another DAW, which i did consider due to live 8's still woefull midi editing capabilities.

ive taken the plunge due to the groove control and the added features - however this wasnt an easy decision. Also i didnt want to skip the suite upgrade this time and need to pay more later.

this will most likely be the last one. its to much for a yearly upgrade. its like they say - "its not what its worth, its what somebody is willing to pay for it"

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Re: Price of Upgrade to Live 8

Post by Surreal » Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:15 pm

you have to figure that a few other DAW's Prices are subsidized by their hardware interests. Apple has CPU, Digi has Interfaces and what not to push, Presonus makes Interfaces, Yamaha is behind cubase, MOTU makes interfaces.

they all want you to love their software because then you have more reason to buy their hardware.

Ableton makes Live and Live related bits of software. Max for Live is the result of a partnership with another company that does not inherently share revenue with Abeleton.

Seriously...we just need more money. (self included. i am buying max first and the wait is massive. i am going back to school WOOO discount.)

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Re: Price of Upgrade to Live 8

Post by swett » Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:58 pm

I already went ahead and paid for the upgrade...
And I'm regreating it. It truly is too much money for not such a bang. 5 effects (multiband was possible with racks, overdrive we already had, limiter was also possible before) And a fixed warp function that wasn't broken...

Vocoder will be fun for a song or two, and the groove generator is cool, but again, I was doing grooves with Live 6, and 7

I LOVE Ableton Live, but honestly, I feel like a fool for spending so much money on this upgrade...

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Re: Price of Upgrade to Live 8

Post by chasting » Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:35 pm

I concur with many on this thread. The Live 7 suite upgrade was justified given the content but the live 7 suite -> live 8 suite is pretty minor given the price.

It might be different if I used this software to make money as many of you do...


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Re: Price of Upgrade to Live 8

Post by puzl » Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:55 pm

have to say that I'm a bit shocked and annoyed at the upgrade price too. $189 for an update (a download at that)? that's kind of nutty. oh well, this is when you love being hooked on software... good times!

Mike Goodwin
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Re: Price of Upgrade to Live 8

Post by Mike Goodwin » Sat Apr 04, 2009 5:23 pm

Surreal wrote:you have to figure that a few other DAW's Prices are subsidized by their hardware interests. Apple has CPU, Digi has Interfaces and what not to push, Presonus makes Interfaces, Yamaha is behind cubase, MOTU makes interfaces.
You have to keep in mind that AKAI had the Live logo stamped on there product. I have to think that these things do not come for free. Just like UAD would have to pay Neve to use there logo.

I did not own Live 8 and spent VERY little time with the beta. I am happy with the the feature list in the update. There where many things added in this version that I thought would be in 7. Basic things like track groups, colour coding tracks, being able to automate VST's properly, basic stuff. They are here now and that makes me happy. The groove templates are also overdue. I can see why they did it this way though. They needed to get features like "export to audio" and Recycle support before they could do groove. They may have had to do things under the hood to get ready for MAX but that is a guess. I just hope that they do not expect me to pay $230 CND. a year just to keep up to date. Thats about $20 bucks a month! I am able to get into my studio for a couple of sessions a week. They are a few hours each but that works out to about 8-10 times a month. So I pay about $2 each time I open the program. I was just thinking as I was typing here but that makes me want to put one those coin trays that you find on the washing machine in the laundromat right in the front of my computer just to make sure I am ready for update time :wink:

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Re: Price of Upgrade to Live 8

Post by 3dot... » Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:49 pm

came home the Suite box upgrade... :twisted:

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Re: Price of Upgrade to Live 8

Post by candy warlos » Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:45 pm

To make it short, the only features that interest me in Live 8 are "group tracks", and maybe that other little improvement for easy assigning vst buttons to the controller… is this worth 149 EUR?
Hell no…
I already paid 149 EUR for Live 5 > Live 7 just to make it work on an Intel Mac.
As for any of the other "new features", this is just marketing b.s. to me ; the way to turn an "update" that should be free (since you basically paid for a serial number) into a greedy "upgrade".
Who wants to pay for the crappy ableton effects & synths anyway, when you can get most of the best ones on the market for free with a google search?
Maybe I'm sounding cynical ? not more cynical than the current ableton's strategy IMO.

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Re: Price of Upgrade to Live 8

Post by UncleAge » Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:28 pm

This thread is a bit interesting to me as I sit here contemplating this purchase. I have Live 7 Suite (dl). I would have liked to bump up the boxed 8 Suite. Truth be told I don't see a $299 value in the upgrade. There's quite a few workflow improvements this time around and I'd like to support the Abe's as they make a product that I really like. I have seen times past when a company just shoves in add-ons with no real workflow improvements. I don't think that I can say this about the Abe's as I think each upgrade has helped me out one way or another.

But in these uncertain times I don't think they have sweetened-the-pot enough for this to be a no-brainer upgrade. Heck, even if things were better financially around the globe I'd say this might be a little on the steep side for an upgrade. The only difference being that I might be a bit quicker to pull out the card and make the purchase if I had a better feeling about the economy. If I were to jump on it now I don't see getting anything other than the Live 8 download. And since version 7 is working just fine for me, I'll just put this purchase off for at least a month or two (or more). :(

Maybe it's agood thing in the end as it will allow a few updates to come out and a few bugs to get squashed before I participate.

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Re: Price of Upgrade to Live 8

Post by smutek » Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:57 pm

Upgrades wrote: Upgrade to Ableton Suite (Download) - USD 329
Live 7 to Live 8 Upgrade (Download) - USD 189
You know, I was excited about all of this at first, but when I think about it... nah, I'll definitely take a pass.

Christ, I just shelled out for an upgrade in January.

So, looking back, I bought it new at version 1.5, went to 2 with a free upgrade, then from 2 to 4 with a paid upgrade, 4 to 5 (boxed), and from 5 to 7. I'd figure I would have qualified for a "coupon", but whatever.

Point is, I'd be interested to know how much I've spent with this company in the last 6 years but unfortunately I haven't saved the receipts.

I've thought about it before, and I might have even said it, but actually think I'm finished with this to be honest.

Year after year.... it's kind of a money pit.

I think my money would be better spent on some lessons, or a new instrument, or a class at the local community college.... or a lot of other things.

Realistically I probably could have stayed on version 5 forever. Truthfully, the only reason I did upgrade is because it was just after Christmas, I was in the mood to spend, and I got a little irresponsible with a low interest credit card. Oh yeah, and because an Ableton employee told me they were working on a fix for this wacom tablet bug a few of us have been begging them to fix since like version 4.......

So, yeah, I might get that APC thing down the road, but aside from that I wont be upgrading anymore, unless I sell some of my other shit to offset the cost.

Nothing against Ableton. My finances aren't their problem just as their finances aren't my problem.

lol.... Imagine next year when people are paying to upgrade ableton suite 9, plus max for live, and trying to buy serato for live.....

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