Moderators, please -- censor us!

[serge_a_storms]

Am I in the minority?

It would appear so.

[LoopStationZebra]

bah.

I've decided that I'd rather see 1000 silly threads calling for more moderation than just ONE more thread bitching about the price of Live 8. FFS.

[oblique strategies]

Do you regularly stick your hand on your stove or piss your pants? No one has a responsibility to NOT offend you.

[the_antagonist]

wow. someone one said "who are you to comment when you only postedf 30 odd messages" and yet your post drummed up as such support as "is barrack obama on his hunnymoon period"

[dcease]

wtf???

[the_antagonist]

yeh man! zing

[Jeff Brown]

Well, I guess that's what I wanted to know. I'll continue to frequent those forums that have consistently cogent and insightful discussions of actual audio issues. Which, BTW, is where I post when I want to talk about audio with other intelligent people.

I'm sure the throng of what sounds like kids yelling at me contains exceptions, but the average person who's really good at anything -- songwriting, software, coding, audio-related mathematics, other math, music theory, etc. -- got that way by being focused, working hard and not wasting their time. To the extent that reading through this forum is a waste of time, those people are less likely to be found here.

Of course, it's good to have places where you can talk to others who share your interests. And unless you're in a big city, the internet often provides the only feasible platform for such socialization. I'm not knocking that -- it's great. But that goal and the one I have in mind are not at odds with each other. If you're too manly to accept the "pussy" solution of censorship, would you be more amenable to a dedicated, off-topic area of the forum?

And maybe another one for discussions that actually are on topic, every now and then, but that take their sweet time, spicing things up with lots of gerbil pic's and titillating phrases like "wipe my ass". I view such posts as speech impediments, but if a lot of you guys find that stuff thought-provoking and worth your time, I'll concede that it seems desirable for you to have a place to keep at it.

On this thread and elsewhere, some have tried to voice the argument that the principles of free speech dictate that the only ethical arrangement is for everyone to have the right to post whatever garbage they want to thrust at the public. The history of Western philosophy is not on your side. Rights are designed for the explicit and sole purpose of improving the welfare of the society that sets them up. If we realize we're choking on our own bullshit, we aren't obligated to continue, no matter how loud any particular producers of that bullshit argue in favor of the status quo. That's the reason companies create forums in the first place -- so that they can control the content, and make sure a lot of customers find it relevant.

Ableton is probably making the profit-maximizing choice; they realize that the majority of their consumers are young men who spend a lot of time at the computer, and that those young men also need a place to amuse and impress each other. I'm probably spitting into the wind.

edit:

(1) I'm not trying to offend anyone, and I realize not everyone falls into the stereotype I've got in my head.

(2) When I say "Ableton is probably making the profit-maximizing decision", I don't think that's necessarily bad. Companies make money by making other people happy. And this one has certainly made me very, very happy.

(3) The question isn't whether you want yourself to be censored. Clearly, nobody does. The question is whether you think the pain of seeing your own carefully-crafted prose removed would be worth the clarity and speed gained from deleting everyone else's stupid shit.

(4) Perhaps, in this strange place, one can win an argument by attacking the person who made it. But when you grow up, you'll find yourself more likely to win if you argue the point itself.

(5) Initially I was assuming everyone yelling at me was representative of the forum's readership, but after thinking further about it I'm not so sure. Those who are most likely to yelp, one has to suspect, are those who would lose most if censorship were to start happening. That is, just maybe, the people arguing so loudly against me are in fact the biggest time-wasters.

[Tone Deft]

totally arrogant.

if you want to discuss audio, I'd love to, I love audio and talk about it all the time, on and offline. instead, you chose to post dissent and arrogantly judge the forum.

when there's no audio or Live discussions going on, we digress and blow off steam.

if you think you know more than us about audio try it. I seriously doubt it.

btw lighten the fuck up.

[dcease]

[the_antagonist]

Well, I guess that's what I wanted to know. I'll continue to frequent those forums that have consistently cogent and insightful discussions of actual audio issues. Which, BTW, is where I post when I want to talk about audio with other intelligent people.

I'm sure the throng of what sounds like kids yelling at me contains exceptions, but the average person who's really good at anything -- songwriting, software, coding, audio-related mathematics, other math, music theory, etc. -- got that way by being focused, working hard and not wasting their time. To the extent that reading through this forum is a waste of time, those people are less likely to be found here.

Of course, it's good to have places where you can talk to others who share your interests. And unless you're in a big city, the internet often provides the only feasible platform for such socialization. I'm not knocking that -- it's great. But that goal and the one I have in mind are not at odds with each other. If you're too manly to accept the "pussy" solution of censorship, would you be more amenable to a dedicated, off-topic area of the forum?

And maybe another one for discussions that actually are on topic, every now and then, but that take their sweet time, spicing things up with lots of gerbil pic's and titillating phrases like "wipe my ass". I view such posts as speech impediments, but if a lot of you guys find that stuff thought-provoking and worth your time, I'll concede that it seems desirable for you to have a place to keep at it.

On this thread and elsewhere, some have tried to voice the argument that the principles of free speech dictate that the only ethical arrangement is for everyone to have the right to post whatever garbage they want to thrust at the public. The history of Western philosophy is not on your side. Rights are designed for the explicit and sole purpose of improving the welfare of the society that sets them up. If we realize we're choking on our own bullshit, we aren't obligated to continue, no matter how loud any particular producers of that bullshit argue in favor of the status quo. That's the reason companies create forums in the first place -- so that they can control the content, and make sure a lot of customers find it relevant.

Ableton is probably making the profit-maximizing choice; they realize that the majority of their consumers are young men who spend a lot of time at the computer, and that those young men also need a place to amuse and impress each other. I'm probably spitting into the wind.

edit:

(1) I'm not trying to offend anyone, and I realize not everyone falls into the stereotype I've got in my head.

(2) When I say "Ableton is probably making the profit-maximizing decision", I don't think that's necessarily bad. Companies make money by making other people happy. And this one has certainly made me very, very happy.

(3) The question isn't whether you want yourself to be censored. Clearly, nobody does. The question is whether you think the pain of seeing your own carefully-crafted prose removed would be worth the clarity and speed gained from deleting everyone else's stupid shit.

(4) Perhaps, in this strange place, one can win an argument by attacking the person who made it. But when you grow up, you'll find yourself more likely to win if you argue the point itself.

(5) Initially I was assuming everyone yelling at me was representative of the forum's readership, but after thinking further about it I'm not so sure. Those who are most likely to yelp, one has to suspect, are those who would lose most if censorship were to start happening. That is, just maybe, the people arguing so loudly against me are in fact the biggest time-wasters.

oi.. i wasnt poking fun. however i cant read that.... its far too long... but oi. its just a larf. no we dont need sensored because ableton sells an expensive product to music folk...... and us music folk take equipment very seriously, (exspecially exspensive music kit) as such we dont need moderators. we self regulate.

remember: live is our live and we aint gonna have some dude poppin in to sell us insurance and tell us how hot his wife is.



so relax

[the_antagonist]

can i have a 'Word'!

[Jeff Brown]

I'm going to keep arguing what I started, because nobody else is. But shit, that monkey picture is hilarious.

[the_antagonist]

yeh you are right..... that is funny

[Angstrom]

On this thread and elsewhere, some have tried to voice the argument that the principles of free speech dictate that the only ethical arrangement is for everyone to have the right to post whatever garbage they want to thrust at the public. The history of Western philosophy is not on your side. Rights are designed for the explicit and sole purpose of improving the welfare of the society that sets them up.

So, your contention is that 'rights' such as free speech, exist only to "improve the welfare of the society that sets them up"
I would say that is incorrect. Rights actually embody the opposite: the right to dissent from the society that set them up. There is a very good reason for this, and that is : 'morally good and pure' ideologies can often become horribly corrupt without the license for fools to dance in the kings court and poke mockery through nonsense. When the fool is killed, you know you are in trouble.

I'll give you an example : in the late 19th and early 20th century industrialization was wrecking the health of many people. To combat this physical and mental ruination a new movement of naturalism and interest in nature and human health was begun. Philosophers and biologists endorsed this idea, Darwin's theory of evolution, ruskins views on teh countryside, all rode this popular wave of fascination with nature, perfection and idealism. All agreed that the purity of nature was the pinnacle of perfection, so therefore impurities ought to be removed, defectives, racial 'types' all ought to be weeded out to maintain this purity. Can you see where I am going with this?
The "history of western philosophy" tells me that Nietzsche's ideas of the 'superman' , the 'purity' that you seek, is not a good idea.
You see, the problem with anybodies ideas of "purity" is : Who gets to decide, and what happens when those individual predjudices become dogma.

It is not 'for reasons of profit' that they let the forum be as it is, it is because of history. Ableton is a German company, and you may think I am being glib here, but I am not. Ableton's staff have said exactly this on this very issue, this is their philosophy and it is a valid one.

'purity' is not to be sought.

bend like the reed, or break like the twig

[the_antagonist]

Well, I guess that's what I wanted to know. I'll continue to frequent those forums that have consistently cogent and insightful discussions of actual audio issues. Which, BTW, is where I post when I want to talk about audio with other intelligent people.

I'm sure the throng of what sounds like kids yelling at me contains exceptions, but the average person who's really good at anything -- songwriting, software, coding, audio-related mathematics, other math, music theory, etc. -- got that way by being focused, working hard and not wasting their time. To the extent that reading through this forum is a waste of time, those people are less likely to be found here.

Of course, it's good to have places where you can talk to others who share your interests. And unless you're in a big city, the internet often provides the only feasible platform for such socialization. I'm not knocking that -- it's great. But that goal and the one I have in mind are not at odds with each other. If you're too manly to accept the "pussy" solution of censorship, would you be more amenable to a dedicated, off-topic area of the forum?

And maybe another one for discussions that actually are on topic, every now and then, but that take their sweet time, spicing things up with lots of gerbil pic's and titillating phrases like "wipe my ass". I view such posts as speech impediments, but if a lot of you guys find that stuff thought-provoking and worth your time, I'll concede that it seems desirable for you to have a place to keep at it.

On this thread and elsewhere, some have tried to voice the argument that the principles of free speech dictate that the only ethical arrangement is for everyone to have the right to post whatever garbage they want to thrust at the public. The history of Western philosophy is not on your side. Rights are designed for the explicit and sole purpose of improving the welfare of the society that sets them up. If we realize we're choking on our own bullshit, we aren't obligated to continue, no matter how loud any particular producers of that bullshit argue in favor of the status quo. That's the reason companies create forums in the first place -- so that they can control the content, and make sure a lot of customers find it relevant.

Ableton is probably making the profit-maximizing choice; they realize that the majority of their consumers are young men who spend a lot of time at the computer, and that those young men also need a place to amuse and impress each other. I'm probably spitting into the wind.

edit:

(1) I'm not trying to offend anyone, and I realize not everyone falls into the stereotype I've got in my head.

(2) When I say "Ableton is probably making the profit-maximizing decision", I don't think that's necessarily bad. Companies make money by making other people happy. And this one has certainly made me very, very happy.

(3) The question isn't whether you want yourself to be censored. Clearly, nobody does. The question is whether you think the pain of seeing your own carefully-crafted prose removed would be worth the clarity and speed gained from deleting everyone else's stupid shit.

(4) Perhaps, in this strange place, one can win an argument by attacking the person who made it. But when you grow up, you'll find yourself more likely to win if you argue the point itself.

(5) Initially I was assuming everyone yelling at me was representative of the forum's readership, but after thinking further about it I'm not so sure. Those who are most likely to yelp, one has to suspect, are those who would lose most if censorship were to start happening. That is, just maybe, the people arguing so loudly against me are in fact the biggest time-wasters.

no really. i had another go at it. but, shit i cant read all that. should you not have been making music while you typed all that. come to think of it. should i not be making music. i seem to be listening to the new prodigy album. the single is good but this just wont do.