France passes the "three strikes" law against i-pirates

[mock]

I didn't here a lot about it in Paris either; I think people view it as something doomed to failure anyway...

To be fair this law was introduced last year, and that was the end of the legislative process, and everybody thought it was a done deal. That's why it didn't attract that much attention.

what i like about french opposition, is that they voted against this law because "it was not going far enough".
so they prefer to have a status quo and let people donwload stuff for free for the sake of being "the opposition".
i'm sure if the law proposed had been harder, they would have voted against it anyway...


i personnally think this is not good news. this law was maybe not the best, but at least it was a start.

This is wrong. Both the majority and the opposition are divided about that law (at least in the assembly). The reasons for opposing it is rarely that "it is not going far enough" though.

As a rule of thumb a bad law is worse than no law. But don't worry, the text will eventually pass (probably before the summer). However there will be more legal battles around this.

[peeddrroo]

i mean a start to make people realize they won't download stuff for free for ever and ever.
i'm sure most people would stop downloading stuff after receiving the first email warning (that's already the case in other countries who adopted it).
then the hardcore guys would probably keep on doing it or find ways not to get caught. that you can't avoid, i agree. it's the mass thing that's a problem.

yesterday i was passing by the fnac bastille (a big cd store in paris), which is about to close because of the market going down. that is pretty emblematic to me, as it was one of the first fnac ever.

[Green Lemon]

i mean a start to make people realize they won't download stuff for free for ever and ever.
i'm sure most people would stop downloading stuff after receiving the first email warning (that's already the case in other countries who adopted it).
then the hardcore guys would probably keep on doing it or find ways not to get caught. that you can't avoid, i agree. it's the mass thing that's a problem.

yesterday i was passing by the fnac bastille (a big cd store in paris), which is about to close because of the market going down. that is pretty emblematic to me, as it was one of the first fnac ever.

OK, well, every time I go in that store its mobbed and there are deep lines at the cash registers, and they sell current CDs for 18-22 euros which is flat out ridiculous...so I can't really pity them. More like, burn in hell FNAC.

[mock]

i mean a start to make people realize they won't download stuff for free for ever and ever.
i'm sure most people would stop downloading stuff after receiving the first email warning (that's already the case in other countries who adopted it).
then the hardcore guys would probably keep on doing it or find ways not to get caught. that you can't avoid, i agree. it's the mass thing that's a problem.

yesterday i was passing by the fnac bastille (a big cd store in paris), which is about to close because of the market going down. that is pretty emblematic to me, as it was one of the first fnac ever.

Funny that you should mention Fnac, as the first official report that inspired the law was written by Fnac's then CEO D. Olivennes. The guy is now the head of a weekly french newspaper, said paper is of course fair and balanced on the topic. Emblematic indeed.

[peeddrroo]

fact is this law was supported by the SACEM. who is supposed to be in favour of artists rights.
i don't see your points guys, are you supporting illegal downloading of music?
are you happy to see music stores shutting down?
i'm not and i think any decision going against it is good.

[dazzer]

fact is this law was supported by the SACEM. who is supposed to be in favour of artists rights.
i don't see your points guys, are you supporting illegal downloading of music?
are you happy to see music stores shutting down?
i'm not and i think any decision going against it is good.

Wow, nice argument, if you don't support this law you support piracy? FAIL.

What were some of the arguments against this law in other countries? Something like you only have to be ACCUSED 3 times by a private body who in the past have sent these warnings falsely to babies, dead people etc.

So, if you are accused 3 times without ever being found guilty guilty, BANG, Internet gone. Whereas if you've been found guilty of a crime and are in prison, you DO get Internet access to study and so on.

[Human Koala]

there is a lot of things behind this law and it's not only the piracy problem. N
Net neutrality, presumption of innocence become presumption of guilty, labelisation government of journalists on the net ( yes it is in this law too ), surveillance by a government spyware you have to buy. double punition, private police, no judgement.

this is not a good law, that's all, i'm against piracy but i won't sell my freedom for that.

HK

[peeddrroo]

well, the thing is i'm no lawyer and i think i can't judge is a law is good or not.
i let people who know this stuff do it for me. namely in france: SACEM regarding copyrights, and CNIL regarding privacy and internet abuse.
SACEM was supporting this law, and i didn't hear CNIL complain about it, which is what they do when they don't like something.
the thing is that i see a law as a ground on which something can be built, not as something written in the stone.

i think sending an email to someone saying "you're downloading stuff, we're watching you" is fair enough.
but then again, i don't know the ins and outs.

[mock]

well, the thing is i'm no lawyer and i think i can't judge is a law is good or not.
i let people who know this stuff do it for me. namely in france: SACEM regarding copyrights, and CNIL regarding privacy and internet abuse.
SACEM was supporting this law, and i didn't hear CNIL complain about it, which is what they do when they don't like something.
the thing is that i see a law as a ground on which something can be built, not as something written in the stone.

i think sending an email to someone saying "you're downloading stuff, we're watching you" is fair enough.
but then again, i don't know the ins and outs.

The SACEM is in NO way an authoritative body regarding copyrights laws. The name stands for "Society of authors, compositors and editors of music", and its board is composed solely of members of those three professions (mostly compositors and authors), no lawyers.

As for the CNIL ( the privacy authority), you couldn't hear it complain because it is not allowed to publish the content of reports regarding certain laws without government's approval. Furthermore it is a consultative body only in the legislative process, and it was asked to check only the very first version of the text when it was still nicknamed Hadopi.

[Human Koala]

well, the thing is i'm no lawyer and i think i can't judge is a law is good or not.
i let people who know this stuff do it for me. namely in france: SACEM regarding copyrights, and CNIL regarding privacy and internet abuse.
SACEM was supporting this law, and i didn't hear CNIL complain about it, which is what they do when they don't like something.
the thing is that i see a law as a ground on which something can be built, not as something written in the stone.

i think sending an email to someone saying "you're downloading stuff, we're watching you" is fair enough.
but then again, i don't know the ins and outs.

i'm agree with the email, it's not a big deal, only if it is done by the public service ( police, judge ) and not a private company, but it is not the case here.

public interest before private or company one always.
and this law seems not to protect against piracy. we can't stop people exchange files cause internet is build upon exchange.

http://www.pcinpact.com/actu/news/43880 ... vennes.htm
http://bugbrother.blog.lemonde.fr/2009/ ... ait-le-ps/

i understand the point of view but the ins and outs are in this case more important than the primary aim of this law... it's a first step to something i don't like at all

just my point of view

HK
http://virb.com/humankoala
http://virb.com/doctorriotandmissvelvet

[eisnein]

first off: it got shot down didn't it?

and ...

not sure how its like "taking away a driver's license from someone with a bus pass". it seems a little more like taking a way a driver's license from someone who has a master key to everyone's cars and gets caught with them. i AGREE 100% that the RECORD LABELS EFFED UP. Charging the same price as a double LP in 1970 really doesn't help the business model, nor does promoting short run artists like American Idol winners instead of "career" artists...and many many other messups the greedy bigwigs made. BUT....apparently its easier to "steal" mobile service so....

IMHO we as a society should prob figure out Intellectual Property soon because when the nano-tech arrives EVERYTHING including food will boil down to IP...

[mock]

first off: it got shot down didn't it?

For now, the government will submit the law for a new vote at the end of the month. But many doubt this will be possible to do before May, and in that case it will probably be postponed because the elections for the european parliament are coming, and the majority is not that popular already.

Btw, @peeddrroo the only lawyer/legal scholar I know who has publicly spoken in favor of the law is Prof. Gauthier, who said it was worth "experimenting" (imho this is code speak for "it will fail"). On the other hand many lawyers/legal scholars are against this law and it includes Prof. Vivant who is arguably the most respected specialist of the field.

[peeddrroo]

Btw, @peeddrroo the only lawyer/legal scholar I know who has publicly spoken in favor of the law is Prof. Gauthier, who said it was worth "experimenting" (imho this is code speak for "it will fail"). On the other hand many lawyers/legal scholars are against this law and it includes Prof. Vivant who is arguably the most respected specialist of the field.

fair enough.
i must say i've been in favour of this (maybe blindly) mainly cause i saw SACEM was badly lobbying for it, and because i haven't heard of any viable alternative.

[Green Lemon]

Btw, @peeddrroo the only lawyer/legal scholar I know who has publicly spoken in favor of the law is Prof. Gauthier, who said it was worth "experimenting" (imho this is code speak for "it will fail"). On the other hand many lawyers/legal scholars are against this law and it includes Prof. Vivant who is arguably the most respected specialist of the field.

fair enough.
i must say i've been in favour of this (maybe blindly) mainly cause i saw SACEM was badly lobbying for it, and because i haven't heard of any viable alternative.

I think its important to recognize that we need a *viable* alternative- one that does not start with the assumption that the majors labels are still going to be the big winners. This law was a backroom deal by Sarkozy and his buddies from what I can gather. Its aim was primarily to keep the FNAC in business. I give a rats ass about the FNAC, but I do believe that artists should be fairly compensated for their efforts. The "ins and the outs" are all important- the devil is in the details.