Live 8 groove vs. the real thing

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
petit nuage
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Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:31 pm

Re: Live 8 groove vs. the real thing

Post by petit nuage » Thu May 14, 2009 1:04 am

yes yes direct midi acess and i know its a latency issue .. about few ms but ..the groove is in that few ms !

so i check my preferences ,audio options to adjust my general latency to 0.00 ..first with ms and after with smp


and after i made a test between the same midi sequence quantized on mpc ,recorded in live in audio and in midi and compare the waveform and midi notes in arrangement to see the timing results ..


and for a complex ,offbeat sequence , like a bass solo or a funky riff -not a light offbeat hi-hat - there is very little differences but differences !


so i think the problem is latency !


and its the real power of mpc -no latency -


but with a good tweaking of groove pool settings i can almost reproduce mpc quantization behaviour !

i think ,specially , quantize setting ...


but i cannot understand very well how this quantize and amount setting work while with mpc its directly effective ...by exple : basic quantization like : 1/16 , swing:50 timing : earlier ,amount :0 press ok and its funky as hell !


but i would like to know : - if when i extract a groove ..

must i loop it in one or two bar or it doesnt have importance ?

and if i must select beat in warp mode before extracting the groove ?



and if someone could tell me : what settings on mpc quantization correspond to live 8 groove pool settings ?


thanks !

kb420
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Location: Cydonia on the 4th Planet

Re: Live 8 groove vs. the real thing

Post by kb420 » Thu May 14, 2009 9:52 am

Do you have your quantize parameter in the groove pool set to 100%?


And, yes, I do own a MPC 3000.
H20nly wrote:fuck Bitwig.

petit nuage
Posts: 430
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:31 pm

Re: Live 8 groove vs. the real thing

Post by petit nuage » Thu May 14, 2009 10:49 am

no , i put the quantize percentage between 0 and 100 percent because 100 seems to be more like classic quantization ..but maybe i was wrong ..

after , i have test that to apply a classic ,ctrl + u 1/16 quantization and its not the same ..


tell me : must i put 100 percent in quantize parameter ? and in timing and amount ?

in order to reproduce with fidelity and precision the groove extracted ?

petit nuage
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Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:31 pm

Re: Live 8 groove vs. the real thing

Post by petit nuage » Thu May 14, 2009 10:56 am

if there is mpc owners ..could you give me some advices to tweak well groove pool parameters in order to reproduce with fidelity the mpc behaviour ?


above all , i think about quantize,timing and amount parameters ..


thanks ! :D

Tone Deft
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Re: Live 8 groove vs. the real thing

Post by Tone Deft » Thu May 14, 2009 5:25 pm

why? so you can tell people you made a song with mpc swing? use your ears and the available groove pool or make your own.

you don't like what you already have but you know that you'd like mpc swing even though you don't really know what that sounds like? this is just mpc worship.

form over function. trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.


there was a tip on what mpc swing is exactly in the other thread you started.
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

petit nuage
Posts: 430
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:31 pm

Re: Live 8 groove vs. the real thing

Post by petit nuage » Thu May 14, 2009 5:48 pm

hey tone keep cool !


i ask some help and advices not for your sarcastic post !


if my posts disturb you , so ..dont answer.. its very simple ...


and about mpc ..

i know exactly its behaviour .. and its quantization its directly effective ..with live i have to do some tweaking .. i just ask for advices about groove pool parameters and how to extract perfectly a groove ..thats all !!
Last edited by petit nuage on Thu May 14, 2009 6:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Tone Deft
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Re: Live 8 groove vs. the real thing

Post by Tone Deft » Thu May 14, 2009 5:51 pm

oh god, what a whiner...

arrogant? keep cool? what? just asking you a direct question.

not to mention there are loads of mpc grooves already available and there is no single mpc groove setting.

this makes no sense whatsoever.
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

petit nuage
Posts: 430
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:31 pm

Re: Live 8 groove vs. the real thing

Post by petit nuage » Thu May 14, 2009 6:03 pm

if you have the knowledge or answers to my questions tell me ... im listen to you .. otherwise you may post your precious advices in other places !
Last edited by petit nuage on Thu May 14, 2009 6:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

petit nuage
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Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:31 pm

Re: Live 8 groove vs. the real thing

Post by petit nuage » Thu May 14, 2009 6:06 pm

all what you said i already know it ..so thanks again for your high value contribution !

djgroovy
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Location: Portugal

Re: Live 8 groove vs. the real thing

Post by djgroovy » Fri May 15, 2009 9:12 am

What's in that video?!
Youtube tells me "this video is not available in your country". Wtf?
Never seen that before...

bensuthers
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Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:51 am

Re: Live 8 groove vs. the real thing

Post by bensuthers » Fri May 15, 2009 9:42 am

> but i ve tried your method with one bar loop , or mpc 's 2 bar default setting , with mpc and live sync in
> midi , but no i cannot have the same funky quantization ..

he didn't say 1 bar. he said 5 minutes, and he said audio.

record the audio dude. and use that.

petit nuage
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Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:31 pm

Re: Live 8 groove vs. the real thing

Post by petit nuage » Fri May 15, 2009 10:02 am

:D arf this is video clip of a new jack band called guy who sings "groove me" ! héhé


hey ben i ve said in midi but im talk about sync ...but i dont understand why 5 min are more effective than just one or two bar ..because on my mpc my sequence for the test was a two bar mpc 's default setting sequence .. 5 min of two bar's loop vs just two bar ..

but i ve tried in midi and audio extraction...


but after hours of tests ..i think with o.oo latency + good tweaking in groove pool paremeters = problem quasi solved !

a thing it is strange is that : when im extracting audio and midi from the same mpc quantized sequence
and when im compare the audio waveform with midi notes placement in arrangement ,with zoom and marker , there is litte differences in timing ,few ms ,but the groove is in these ms ... so i think my problem is latency somewhere ..maybe my midi cable ..but i think its my computer fault but i dont know how to change that ..

if you have some ideas ..

thanks !
Last edited by petit nuage on Fri May 15, 2009 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

UKRuss
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Re: Live 8 groove vs. the real thing

Post by UKRuss » Fri May 15, 2009 10:09 am

And after all that you're not going to share the answer with us?

I am only interested in the sense that it would be nice to know the difference between the Abes preset MPC swing settings and your interpretation of the real MPC swing settings.

petit nuage
Posts: 430
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:31 pm

Re: Live 8 groove vs. the real thing

Post by petit nuage » Fri May 15, 2009 10:23 am

maybe i was wrong because im novice in groove extraction and groove pool parameters 's tweaking.. and i hope its that ..

for me the two things that have improved the process are : general latency in preferences ,audio , first with ms near o but you cant here have o.0. after click on the ms button to have smp and there go to 0.00 of latency ..


after that one other thing is in groove pool parameters ,the quantize setting..

put it between 50 and 100 percent to be effective ..

thats the only 2 things ive learned from what ive tried !


tschuss !

kb420
Posts: 2737
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:35 am
Location: Cydonia on the 4th Planet

Re: Live 8 groove vs. the real thing

Post by kb420 » Sat May 16, 2009 8:09 pm

petit nuage wrote:maybe i was wrong because im novice in groove extraction and groove pool parameters 's tweaking.. and i hope its that ..

for me the two things that have improved the process are : general latency in preferences ,audio , first with ms near o but you cant here have o.0. after click on the ms button to have smp and there go to 0.00 of latency ..


after that one other thing is in groove pool parameters ,the quantize setting..

put it between 50 and 100 percent to be effective ..

thats the only 2 things ive learned from what ive tried !


tschuss !

Your problem only exist in the groove extraction itself.

When you record your sequence into Live, check to see that the warp markers are where they should be. This will throw your groove off beat if you aren't careful. Once you set the warp markers where they should be, extract the groove. Everything should be fine then.

Check out this video from 20:00 on til the end:

http://www.medwaystudios.com/Ableton-8- ... orial.html

It explains everything.
H20nly wrote:fuck Bitwig.

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